Oct. 20, 2022

What the Major Players Say About the Future of Sports Betting

How to invest in a new stock market for athletes


Nora speaks with entrepreneur Vinit Bharara, co-founder and CEO of Mojo, the first ever licensed sports stock market, which lets fans invest in an athlete’s on-field performance like a stock, with real-time price changes and instant liquidity. He talks about why he believes Mojo is taking sports betting to the next level, and how it enables fans to leverage their passion and use their sports knowledge to make money. 

 

Host: Nora Ali

Producers: Olivia Meade and Raymond Luu  

Video Editor: Sebastian Vega

Production, Mixing & Sound Design: Daniel Markus

Music: Daniel Markus & Breakmaster Cylinder

Fact Checker: Kate Brandt 

Senior Producer: Katherine Milsop

VP, Head of Multimedia: Sarah Singer 

 

Full transcripts for all Business Casual episodes available at https://businesscasual.fm

Transcript

Nora Ali: For Morning Brew, this is Business Casual, bringing you convos with people you know and some you may not know yet, to make business less intimidating. Because money talks, but it does not have to be dull. I'm your host, Nora Ali. Now let's get down to business.

If you're a fan of sports, there are more and more ways to make real money off of your fandom and sports knowledge. The sports betting industry in the US is booming. In 2021, the American gaming industry reported $57.2 billion in handle. That's another way of saying the amount of money wagered, which amounted to $4.29 billion in revenue. That is pretty jaw-dropping, considering it was only four years ago that the Supreme Court ruled that states could decide for themselves whether they wanted to legalize sports betting. It is now legal in some form in 35 states and in Washington, DC. 

Serial entrepreneur Vinit Bharara is looking to capitalize on this boom with his company, Mojo, a new sports stock market backed by billionaire entrepreneur Marc Lore and entrepreneur and former baseball player Alex Rodriguez. Unlike gambling, which Vinit described as all or nothing, Mojo functions more along the lines of the financial markets, like E-Trade meets ESPN. Mojo lets fans invest in an athlete's on-field performance like a stock. And the value or price of an athlete is based on hard metrics, including predictions of an athlete's stats at the end of their career. Mojo has officially launched in New Jersey, with the plan to expand to other states in the near future. This was a fun convo. Vinit is super sharp and an expert at building wildly successful companies, including launching Diapers.com with Marc Lore, which sold to Amazon for over $500 million, and launching media company Some Spider Studios, which got acquired for $150 million, and now he is tackling sports. We'll get into all of that after the break.

Vinit, I am very excited to chat with you. Welcome to Business Casual, and congrats on the launch of Mojo. This is so great.

Vinit Bharara: Thank you very much.

Nora Ali: Before we get into it, I would like to start with an icebreaker for a segment called OG Occupations. You've had a lot of different jobs in your life, Vinit, so I want you to go back in the memory bank and tell me what your very first job ever was in your life.

Vinit Bharara: I was just thinking about this because I was with my kids in New Jersey. So I grew up in New Jersey and the first job I ever had was at ShopRite, the supermarket. And I used to do the carts in the parking lot where you aggregate the carts and put them to the front. I really think that I was probably 10 years old, because I do know that at 11 years old I was delivering a paper called the Asbury Park Press and so this had to have been before, so I think I was 10.

Nora Ali: 10 years old pushing shopping carts. You're not our first guest for whom that was their first job. Did you enjoy it?

Vinit Bharara: No, I didn't like it, but it must have been the go-to back then. And I remember because it was in a little...by the way, the ShopRite still exists, it's very close to where I grew up. My parents have moved, but within the same confinement of stores, there's a pizza store that used to be called Attilio's. And so what I really remember was that I would do this thing; it started at maybe 10:00am and all I looked forward to was my lunch at noon or 12:30, because I would eat this Attilio's pizza and I still remember how good that was, and I hated the job, but I loved the pizza.

Nora Ali: It is those meals that really stick out to you in early jobs. So it's funny you mentioned pizza, because as you know, I used to work at Jet.com, which Marc Lore founded. We have Marc Lore in common. He's a co-founder of Mojo. You started Diapers.com with him. There is a pizza shop in Montclair, New Jersey. We shared the parking lot with that pizza shop called Ah' Pizz for our very first janky Jet.com office. And every conference room, you know this, every conference room smelled like pizza. You'd get a waft of it when you crossed the parking lot to go from conference room to conference room, and that's like one of my best memories of working at Jet.

Vinit Bharara: There you go. There you go.

Nora Ali: It's the pizza. It's important.

Vinit Bharara: As you know having worked with Marc, food is the center of a lot of what he thinks about, which is obviously his business. I was just at lunch with some coworkers prior to this interview and I told them that when I was working with Marc, we would go to lunch every single day. We would make sure we got out of the office to do lunch, and that was the center, you know, that was a really big piece part of the day, including in Montclair. They didn't have that restaurant, I think, when we worked there. But it's not a bad thing when you're working at a startup to make sure you get that hour or 45 minutes to take lunch.

Nora Ali: And for those of us who work from home, let this be a reminder. You still need a lunch break, even if you're working from your house. Okay, let's get into Mojo. Vinit, the idea of a sports stock market is an idea you've had for a long time and you started The Pit with Marc Lore, which was a sports card stock market. So take me back to the beginning of that. Why did you want to combine the world of sports with betting before sports betting was legal in the US?

Vinit Bharara: This was in the late '90s. I was still a lawyer working at a big law firm and Marc, who was my best friend growing up, but there was also another best friend we had, his name was Lax Chandra. We all went to high school in New Jersey and we were just big sports fans. And back then the internet was pretty new. It wasn't that old; I think it was 1998 or so. And we had this idea as sports fans that we thought it would be pretty cool if you could have regular people like us invest in athletes like stocks. And E-Trade was a big company at the time and eBay was too, and ESPN of course.

And so we thought, what if you could merge E-Trade with ESPN and create this amazingly exciting stock market where the prices of players basically fluctuated based on how they performed on the field? And that was the premise. We went to counsel, and lawyers said, "If you do it right and it's super successful, you may have some issues, legal issues, because there's no regulatory framework. Online wagering is not legal and this could be construed of as wagering." There was some question about that, but we decided to be super safe and instead, as you said, basically create a sports card stock market where the trading card was a proxy for the athlete, and it would still allow the user to invest in athletes like stocks. But there was this physical asset that they were instead investing in.

Nora Ali: I want to get into how Mojo works, because now you have the regulatory framework is in place. So Mojo is the stock market for athletes driven by actual stats, predictions for an athlete's career-ending stats. Can you walk me through what the user experience is, as someone who is investing in these athletes, and what decisions you are making as a user along the way?

Vinit Bharara: The basic idea is it's a sports stock market. You can invest in athletes like stocks. Anyone in the country can download it, you can experience it, and hopefully what you'll find is that it looks like Robinhood or Coinbase, but instead of seeing companies like Amazon or Google or Crypto, you see athletes, and there's prices next to the athlete and it's a very intuitive interface. The foundation of it is that the price is basically a projection of where the end of the career will be for that athlete.

So the really, really important economic concept that's very different than what we did 20 years ago—and this is credit to Marc, I think, he's such a genius as when he thinks quantitatively. On Mojo, there's this thing that we call intrinsic value and you didn't really have that 20 years ago. What we mean by intrinsic value is, if you own stock in any player on Mojo, we guarantee the owner of that stock a payout based on that athlete's career-ending statistics. That's really important, because you now know if you buy that stock and you hold it and don't trade it, that it will have actual value based on something objective and immutable. And that didn't exist in the trading card industry or even currently in NFTs or all kinds of things, because it's like you buy this thing and as you know, you don't really know what it's worth. It could be worth nothing because it's based on purely supply and demand, and what the result of that is that you see these booms and busts in these assets and they're not connected to something intrinsic to the thing you're buying. And we wanted to make sure we solve that. And so that's why we created it that way. Very different from 20 years ago. 

It doesn't mean you have to hold the stock to retirement or no one's going to want to hold this thing to retirement. So the second thing that we wanted to do was create liquidity, so that this asset that you know that has intrinsic value, it's anchored in something real, now you want to make sure that you can trade it whenever you want and that there's a price for it and there's liquidity, which also doesn't exist in a lot of markets. So we had to build a whole market-making infrastructure. That's why we have all these quantitative folks that are ensuring that there's a price at all times for the user to get in and out of. And that price is basically what the latest expectation is of where the career will end for an athlete.

Nora Ali: It is very quantitatively driven, objectively driven, but the design is also quite beautiful. And you mentioned that it looks familiar to, say, a Robinhood or a Coinbase. How important was familiarity of design when you designed the app itself so that people aren't confused, and they're trying to learn something totally new, even though it is a new kind of market?

Vinit Bharara: Super important. So we have an amazing design team led by Anthony Cafaro and so we wanted it to feel familiar. And we wanted it to be easy because we are innovating here; this isn't something that exists in any way today. And so when you introduce something totally new to the customer, I think it's important for that experience to still anchor in something that's familiar.

Nora Ali: So on the pricing of it all, share prices, as I understand it, it moves based on performance, news, anything else that affects the market's expectations for the career-ending value for the athlete. So that's relatively objective, and the Mojo value is calculated on specific metrics like 10 yards, first downs, touchdowns, when you're talking about the NFL. Help me understand how that is different from regular stocks, which are partially based on objective company stats, but there's also sentiment and optimism, speculation, FOMO, what the rest of the market is doing. So how much of the Mojo market is driven by tangible, infallible metrics versus human perception and speculation?

Vinit Bharara: When we think about this as compared to the regular stock market, the first thing we wanted to do is make it as close as possible. In a regular stock market, know that there's earnings and revenue behind that company. At the same time, like you said, the way prices move don't necessarily almost correlate directly to that intrinsic value. There are other factors that can create a price movement or a drop in your stock that's somewhat independent of that specific stock's performance. So inflation, obviously, is going...your stock, the company that you own stock in, could be doing really well, but for some reason the price could be going down because of something external. That happens all the time in the financial markets. And I think in our market, because there's this guaranteed payout that is based on the end of the career statistics, that's even more of an anchor to make sure the price doesn't get out of whack, and delivers on this user promise that we have, which is to the regular person, "Hey look, if you picked the right player and thought that his performance was going to be better than expectations, you will win. The price will go up." You can't always deliver on that in the regular stock market, and on our market, we're hoping that we execute that well.

Nora Ali: What goes into the prediction of what an athlete's career-ending stats will look like? How do you come up with that?

Vinit Bharara: Our team of market makers and data scientists and traders studied millions and millions of transaction data, games, plays, to sort of backtest what it should look like based on where the player is today to set the opening price. And then once we launch, the prices move based on what the expectation of where their career's going to end. But we now have signals coming in after launching from the public, because you know, we're trying to do is we're the platform. We're really trying to have some equilibrium of buyers and sellers and that's like the price that we want to...because then at that point we're balanced as a book and our revenue model is mostly taking a commission on the transaction. Fundamentally, where the public is where the price is settling, because it's where we can find an equilibrium of buyers and sellers, if that makes sense.

Nora Ali: Let's take a very quick break. More with Vinit when we come back. Vinit, you backtested and simulated the return for Tom Brady, which I think is fascinating. If you were to have invested early on in Tom Brady, what did you find in that case, and how does that indicate the kinds of returns you could get if you invested in a really good player very early on?

Vinit Bharara: So Tom Brady is a perfect example. Sixth round pick, when he came out of college from Michigan, no one knew that he was going to become the player he became. Our team thought that his price would be close to $3 or so. And that would be the projection of where his career would end, because at the time, you didn't even know if he was ever going to really be a starter, right, as a sixth round pick. He wound up being the greatest player of all time, of course. And his price now is about $175, I think. I didn't check it today. So a 60X return on Tom Brady if you had gotten in super early, and that's before some of the features that we have on the platform where you could multiply, you could choose multipliers and these boosters during his career where you could make even a multiple of the 60x. It's a very basic concept: Buy low, sell high, and the younger players whose futures are super uncertain, who aren't locks, as they call it, are going to have lower prices. And if you get that right you're probably going to make a big X. And you can also do the opposite: short players who everyone thinks are going to be great.

Nora Ali: I'm really interested in the multiplier tool that you referenced because it makes it more exciting, more volatile for a relatively safe career. You can get a big return on it if you really believe in that person. So how do you go about coming up with those features and doing the research?

Vinit Bharara: The reason we had the multiplier is, we thought even in the stock market, you have options and derivatives which can allow you to accelerate your return faster because you think you're right; you want to make a multiple of that. Let's say the price and the stock was going to move 2% or even the S&P or something like that, maybe you want in the next 30 days or 60 days to make some multiple on that, in the regular stock market. Well, that's how you would use puts or calls and stuff. So this is our first attempt to do something similar to the regular stock market, where we call it a multiplier and it's a very basic thing where we just multiply the returns. If you took a 10X multiplier, it means that your return would be, if you went long, 50%. And on the vice versa, if you went long and he's down 5%, he'd be down 50%. So there are all these similarities, obviously, between the stock market itself, the financial stock market, and gambling. But we do think more along the lines of how the financial markets work...

Nora Ali: Right.

Vinit Bharara: ...and a little less gambling mentality because that's really all or nothing, and you can do parlays and all this other stuff, it's not really the mentality that we're necessarily trying to feed.

Nora Ali: Is there then a plan to offer things like puts and call options, even ETFs where you can buy into multiple athletes? Are you looking into those vehicles as well?

Vinit Bharara: A lot of what we're trying to do is make this easy for the user and demystify it and not complicate it. Some of these doing an option or a put is accelerating your profits or losses and allowing you to take more risk. But some of that may be confusing to the average fan, and so we are trying to do some of those things but doing it in a way that's easy to understand. So we are thinking about the substance of an option and doing it of course correctly and within the regulatory framework we're in. But again, trying to do this in a simple way, this ETF thing very easy for us to do where if you want to buy all the Jets players or all the Giants players. You can do that right now, obviously, by just choosing all of those players, but we can probably make that easier or with one button. That's more of a UX thing, but we can obviously do that. We talk about that all the time.

Nora Ali: Very cool. On the subject of volatility, would anything drive up the price aggressively and very quickly on an athlete? And on the flip side, would anything tank the price, like an injury, or is it a relatively not volatile asset class that we're working with here?

Vinit Bharara: It can definitely be volatile. So we've seen in the first three weeks of the NFL season, players will go up. For example, I'm going to just talk about certain players that I know. DeVonta Smith, wide receiver for the Eagles. In the first couple of weeks, he wasn't necessarily getting a lot of action, he had a breakout game and his price I think was up over 10%. It might even have been closer to 15%. Like you said, on the downside, Trey Lance, the quarterback for the 49ers, a couple of weeks ago had an unfortunate injury where he's out for the year, and as a result he immediately dropped 15%. So you'll see these movements 5%, 10%, 15%, even 20% in a week, that's before the multiplier. And it's all just anchored into this basic premise of like, "Did something happen with this player that was unexpected?" I mean that's what we're working with all the time, trying to make sure it's fun and exciting. Because at the end of the day, this is also an entertainment product.

Nora Ali: Yeah, yeah. So how has activity looked like so far? NFL season is underway, you launched just a couple weeks ago in New Jersey. Is activity what you had expected going into this?

Vinit Bharara: Yes, it's beaten expectations. One of the things that's been interesting, there's been some question like, "Oh, are people going to hold or they going to hold till the end of the career?" We've seen a lot of action where folks have been trading in and out of their positions quickly. They're not waiting, there's a lot of folks, 24 hours, 48 hours, are trading in and out of that position. We've only launched eight, what is it, nine days ago, I think. And so almost 20% of our positions that people have opened have been either closed or partly closed in less than seven days. Some of these are within two days. So we're seeing this rapid turnover, which is an interesting metric for me to see, which ties into the volatility. Another cool thing is, if you do own stock, we're tracking how often are you checking the app to see? Just checking in on your style, checking in on the movements, and we're seeing these amazing login metrics. Just again, this is very early, it's only nine days in, but just some indicator of whether folks think this is fun and engaging. Those retention login metrics are pretty spectacular.

Nora Ali: Nine days in as of this recording when we publish this. Who knows what could be different, Vinit? It could be...

Vinit Bharara: Yeah, yeah.

Nora Ali: ...tens of thousands of downloads. Okay, so we are going to take another very quick break. More with Vinit when we come back. Vinit, let's get into the business of Mojo. As you mentioned, the primary source of revenue is commission on transactions. So does that mean higher volumes of trades are better for you? What is good for Mojo at the end of the day?

Vinit Bharara: I mean if we're just being straight quantitative, the way we're charging the transaction fee, it's a percent of your opening trade, and there might be a commission later also on the exit of your trade, but we don't have that right now. The larger the trade, the more revenue we make, and obviously the more you turn over, the more you're trading itself, there's revenue. So we are looking at frequency, which is really important, and also deposits and size of trades and that kind of thing.

Nora Ali: So for any investing platform, there is of course this tradeoff between education and frictionless transactions. So how do you educate users about the risks of buying the stock of these athletes or betting essentially versus making the process really easy and blocker free? How do you balance those two things?

Vinit Bharara: Education, like you said, is critical. You're introducing a very new product. So we're constantly figuring out how to think about, how to communicate these things in a super easy way. There is another factor which I think you're pointing out, which is regulatory-wise, we also want to make sure that people understand what the risks are. You can easily lose money here. This isn't like some..."You're going to definitely win money on Mojo." You gotta get the players, right? We have to comply with the very clear regulations about what we communicate to customers around risk and responsible gaming. And so you gotta be 21 and older, and there's other all kinds of things that are very clear about what we need to do, that we comply with. And so far as education, I think you're spot on that we have to wrestle every day with communicating and educating customers about how this thing works. I think one advantage is that the prices are pretty intuitive. Player plays better than expected? In a very macro sense, his price is going to go up. The player plays poorly than expected, in a macro sense, his price is gonna go down. And over time you can sense the magnitude of what those price movements are. And then also we've got all this content that we disseminate. Content is a big piece, part of our business too, that we can leverage, which also I think winds up educating the customer about how the market moves.

Nora Ali: Yeah, and it feels like for sports fans who are getting involved in Mojo, understanding the stats of players is fundamentally easier because you're a sports fan; you've been tracking these metrics anyway. As you mentioned before, Mojo is a market maker as well, right?

Vinit Bharara: Yeah. So we wanted to make sure the very outset that there's liquidity, which means that a user comes in, they know two seconds later they can get out. The only way to do that, in our view, is to ourselves take the risk and make sure there is a price for the customer. We did that 20 years ago also with The Pit.

Nora Ali: Mm-hmm. So, are there any third parties involved in the transactions or it's all fully transpiring within the Mojo ecosystem? I guess, can you walk me through what happens to a player's stock from click to transaction?

Vinit Bharara: The transaction's made with us, right? So, you don't have to deal with anyone else. You download the app, there's a quick process to sign up, you have to enter in some information in the same way with Robinhood and Coinbase to protect the customer. The regulations require some information to make sure that you're over 21, to make sure that you're within the state. And then at that point, you deposit money and you just link your bank account.

Once you've got the money in your account, all the players are on there with a price, very easy to search. You pick a player, go long, go short; you can enter in how much money you want to invest in that player. You'll get shares then as a result, and that transaction is being made with Mojo directly as the counterparty. You're not dealing with anyone else. It's instant, it's guaranteed. Again, once you own the stock, you're entitled to this payout upon retirement. And then once you’re holding the stock, you have your portfolio and so now you're just watching the price and the price is the latest expectation of the career. And again, if you had gone long from the time you bought the stock that the player is outperforming his expectations, the price should go up and you could instantly hit the Sell button. And that Sell button again is directly with us as the counterparty and it should be completely frictionless.

Nora Ali: You make it sound so easy, but I'm sure there's lots of challenges in actually making that happen. And one of those challenges is going through the appropriate regulatory bodies, and you have to go state by state, because as we know, sports gambling laws are dependent on each state, as decided by the Supreme Court. So how long does it take from when sports betting becomes legal in a state to then Mojo being functional in that state? What does that look like?

Vinit Bharara: Sports wagering is already legal in over 20 states. I think it might even be almost 30 states now. But New Jersey has been legal for a couple of years and so for us, again very methodical, it's a little slower. This is definitely a complicated industry. And that process, though, does take several months, at least the first state, because the product didn't exist so we had to educate DGE, the Division of Gaming, about what is this thing? How does it work? All the things we're talking about.

And then they had to stress test it, and of course they have a million questions, rightfully so. So, I think New Jersey as our first state took several months. The hope is that as we go to additional states, it will take shorter, but we'll see, because they now can see the product in practice live, as opposed to us showing demos of how it could work. By the way, not only do you have to get the approval of the concept and you have to build the technology that complies with all of the safeguards that they have. And then they get your technology and they test it and they make sure, okay, you're definitely in the state, you can't trade outside the state. If you try to trade outside that state, it doesn't work. So they send people to New York and other places to make sure the trade doesn't work, and as they should, and gotta make sure that the geofence, I mean, the age is working, you can't be under 21, and gotta get the license. So there's a lot that goes into it.

Nora Ali: Wow. I get it, because thinking about my Jet.com days, even little things like tax, different tax rolls from state to state, it's so complicated on the backend. So I feel you, Vinit. At a very small scale, I feel you. So I know you've gotten this comparison before, but things like the Hollywood Stock Exchange have existed where you predict the rise and fall of movies, celebrities. Can this tech be applied to other industries, eventually, where there are similarly metrics you can base values off of?

Vinit Bharara: I don't think so, because you couldn't really do it the way we've described it until recently. The regulatory framework we're using is sports wagering, right? So I don't think we could use...but although I shouldn't, maybe we can. I don't think you can use the sports wagering laws to do a field that's not sports. Now that being said, I think it's possible, although I don't...I'm going to talk to the lawyers about whether you could go to the CFTC and ask them, and that in fact is in some ways easier because you get federal approval, and so there's this company called Call Sheet that's doing these futures contracts, but everything but sports.

The main idea, though, is I think that it's the right question is, as the regulations and as people get smarter and stuff, the concept that we have where you can invest in a player, a person in a very fun way, that's based on objective, intrinsic value in a market-like way where the prices are moving and you can use your knowledge and analysis, I think that's a huge idea. Obviously, we're doing it in what we think is the biggest industry, sports, but it could be extended to things beyond sports. I do think that that's possible...you just gotta figure out which regulation you use.

Nora Ali: Vinit, before we let you go, we have a segment called Smarter, Not Harder. This is where we'd love to hear what your productivity hack is, something that helps you be more productive in your day. What is that one thing?

Vinit Bharara: I try to get, whether it's in the morning or at night, alone time with myself to think. The equation that you wake up, you go right to the office...

Nora Ali: Yeah.

Vinit Bharara: You go right in, you go into all your meetings and then you come out and you come back and you get dinner, whatever it is. And then you're doing, you're watch your Netflix, boom, you go. But for me, there is this really important thing where you need to have some time to think, where you're not talking to anybody else. In my apartment, I can do that in the morning when the kids go to school, my wife is out, and I can talk out loud. So I do that and I find that that's where I'm most productive when I'm trying to think about something complex. Making sure you allot a certain amount of time to just think.

Nora Ali: Yep. But I definitely don't do enough of that because you're always attached to some screen or your emails, your texts, or TikTok. So that's my reminder for today is just to spend more time thinking. Okay, final, final thing for you, Vinit. It's a game of This or That, NFL Edition. So I'm going to name two players and you have to choose which one you'd rather add to your Mojo portfolio or your fantasy lineup. And the caveat here is, Vinit, I don't know who most of these people are, because I'm an honest person. I'm not really a football fan. Maybe I will be if I start trading on Mojo, but maybe you can educate me as we go. I do know the first pair, though. The first matchup, quarterbacks, we've got Joe Burrow or Patrick Mahomes. Who are you picking?

Vinit Bharara: Having watched the first three games of the season, I don't think Burrow's been, in my opinion, looked great. And Mahomes has looked spectacular. So just based on the recent 2022 season, I would go, Patrick Mahomes.

Speaker 3: Dominate, dominate, get it baby, all the ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.

Nora Ali: All right, next step. We're going with veteran QBs, so you know where this is going. Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers?

Vinit Bharara: Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers? Another good one. I think I'd probably go Brady.

Speaker 4: Good job. Way to go. Nice job. Way to go, baby. That's good. The way we're doing is, so good.

Vinit Bharara: Because what the expectation is in the public is that he's just going to play one more year. And I feel like with Brady, so if he plays more than one year, it's almost certain that the stock price would be higher. And I think with someone like Brady, it just feels like I've been so wrong about him retiring in prior years. And just that dimension of him playing another year would make him a better bet or better investment than Aaron Rodgers. And also, you can never go wrong taking Brady.

Nora Ali: I love it. Next up we're going with wide receivers. So Bengals wide receiver Ja'Marr Chase, or Vikings wide receiver Justin Jefferson?

Vinit Bharara: Here's my answer. My answer is going to be Ja'Marr Chase, and here's the reason why. But Joe Burrow is the quarterback and Kirk Cousins is the quarterback of the Vikings. And because Joe Burrow is, in my opinion, way better than Kirk Cousins, so I go Chase, based on Burrow, that's why.

Speaker 5: Like a tight end. Like a tight end, huh? 

Nora Ali: Okay. Wow, you're explaining this very well. Even to someone who is not a fan of the NFL. Last one, we got some rookies. So we've got Breece Hall, the Jets running back, or Devin Lloyd, the Jaguars linebacker. And I know Mojo doesn't have defensive players yet, but just roll with it. So Devin Lloyd or Breece Hall, rookies?

Vinit Bharara: Yeah, I'm going to go...because we're based in New York, I'm going to take the local guy, Breece Hall, New York Jets. I'm not sure if I believe that or not, but I'm just going to do it anyway because we're in New York.

Speaker 6: Hall running free, inside the 10, he's gonna score, touchdown Jets.

Nora Ali: All right, for the loyalty. That was fun. I learned a lot about these NFL players, so we will leave things there. Vinit, thank you so much for talking to us about Mojo. We appreciate it.

Vinit Bharara: Thanks so much, Nora.

Nora Ali: This is Business Casual and I'm Nora Ali. You can follow me on Twitter @NoraKAli. That's Nora, the letter K, Ali. And I would love to hear from you. If you have ideas for episodes, comments and thoughts on episodes you loved, fun segment ideas, just shoot me a DM and I will do my very best to respond. You can also reach the BC team by emailing Business Casual at morningbrew.com, or call us. That number is 862-295-1135. And if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to Business Casual on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. And if you like the show, please leave a rating and a review. It really, really helps us. And guess what? We are on YouTube. So if you've ever wondered what I look like, what our guests look like, or what anything else looks like, whole episodes are available on our very own YouTube channel. That's Business Casual with Nora Ali. Again, Business Casual with Nora Ali on YouTube. Business Casual is produced by Katherine Milsop, Olivia Meade, and Raymond Luu. Additional production, sound design and mixing by Daniel Markus. Kate Brandt is our fact checker. And AB Silver is our senior booking producer. Sebastian Vega edits our videos. Our VP of multimedia is Sarah Singer. Music in this episode from Daniel Markus and The Mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder. Thanks for listening to Business Casual. I'm Nora Ali. Keep it business, and keep it casual.