June 9, 2022

The Business Behind UNICEF & Solving Humanitarian Crises

“We are all responsible for what happens.”

Nora and Scott chat with Oscar-winning director Ben Proudfoot about his new documentary "If You Have: The Untold Story of UNICEF" along with executive producer, UNICEF ambassador, actor and singer Sofia Carson. They dive into the 75-year history and business behind one world's largest humanitarian organizations that operates in over 190 countries and territories, and responds to an average of 300 emergencies a year. For more info on our presenting sponsor, check out grayscale.com/businesscasual


Hosts: Nora Ali & Scott Rogowsky

Producer: Bella Hutchins 

Video Editors: Mckenzie Marshall and Christie Muldoon

Production, Mixing & Sound Design: Daniel Markus

Music: Daniel Markus & Breakmaster Cylinder

Fact Checker: Kate Brandt 

Senior Producer: Katherine Milsop

VP, Head of Multimedia: Sarah Singer

Full transcript for this episode below.


Ben Proudfoot: It's easy to sort of blow this all off like, oh, yeah. Bleeding heart. The kids. Ha ha ha. Be cynical. Yeah, yeah. Help them. Help them. Whatever. Maybe we can do something about it. Maybe we can't. Whatever. But this is really serious business and important. And it gets to the core of who we are as people, and what our responsibilities are in our window of time here on the planet earth. And that's what I wanted to bring out, is I want you to meet those people who, if you had a conversation with them, you would take the mission of UNICEF that much more seriously and give you what feels like an afternoon conversation with kind of all these sort of fairy godparents that enter your life for five minutes and make you feel something about this organization and why it's so important.

Nora Ali: From Morning Brew, this is Business Casual. The podcast that reveals the unexpected business story behind everything. I'm Nora Ali.

Scott Rogowsky: And I'm Scott Rogowsky. Nora and I are here for your ears, bringing you conversations with creators, thinkers, and innovators who can tell us what it all means and why we should care. Now let's get down to business. Oh, UNICEF. Oh, UNICEF. 

Nora Ali: Oh, UNICEF.

Scott Rogowsky: Come put a penny in my Halloween can.

Nora Ali: So you have memories of that as a kid, of the trick or treat, right?

Scott Rogowsky: Yeah. It was a tradition. Everyone in the town did it. I guess, as we learn in our conversation today, UNICEF made a major push in the late '80s to engage everyday Americans and do these campaigns and get into the schools. It must have been some relationship with the schools, because I think that's where it all started.

Nora Ali: Mm. Yeah.

Scott Rogowsky: I remember in kindergarten we had a whole day where it was a UNICEF day. And I think there was a representative and they come in and they talk about what UNICEF does and they gave us these little wristbands that showed you—this is such a vivid memory. It's a memory that's 30 plus years old, but that's the power of it, they gave us wristbands and you can measure our wrists against the wrists of these African kids who were starving. And you can see how skinnier, how much skinnier, their wrists were, because the bone development wasn't as good. So that memory from when I was five years old sticks with me today. And that is the point, right? You get the kids early, create these vivid memories and vivid impressions, it's a positive thing because that was a positive experience in the long run. And it stayed with me to this day.

Nora Ali: Yeah. And this came up in our conversation. It might not feel as ubiquitous an organization or a brand as when we were kids. But as our guests told us, they're still putting in the work. They're still executing. They're still maintaining these relationships with global leaders and still growing. So that's the work that matters.

Scott Rogowsky: Nickelodeon is also not as relevant to us today, but that's probably because we're older.

Nora Ali: Speak for yourself. Nickelodeon's still a very big part of my life, Scott.

Scott Rogowsky: Okay. I'm sorry.

Nora Ali: Nick at Nite. All right. Let's get to it. Today. We are talking to Oscar-winning director Ben Proudfoot and UNICEF ambassador actor and singer Sofia Carson, who worked together to produce a documentary about UNICEF's work, If You Have: The Untold Story of UNICEF, and that is available to stream on YouTube. They joined us to discuss the 75-year history and business behind one of the world's largest humanitarian organizations that operates in over 190 countries and territories. We'll get to our conversation with Sofia and Ben after this quick break.

Scott Rogowsky: Ben, Sofia, welcome. Let's start with you, Ben. How did you become involved with UNICEF?

Ben Proudfoot: When I first actually got the call from UNICEF about this anniversary, I immediately remembered being five years old in Halifax, Nova Scotia, building—because they came flat—building the little orange cardboard box and putting a string around the neck. And then you would carry that with you on Halloween and you would receive donations and this thing would get heavier and heavier and heavier with coins as the night progressed. And then the next day you would dump out your coins on the desk. And I remember at least in one grade there was a leaderboard of who had raised the most money. And in Canada we've got toonies and loonies, $1 and $2 coins. So you could raise 50, 60 bucks in this box. But yeah, that was my first encounter with UNICEF, was kind of kids raising money for kids. When I was four and five years old, this was the Rwandan genocide. There's always some—

Scott Rogowsky: There's always a crisis.

Ben Proudfoot: There's always a crisis, and where there's a crisis, there's children, right? You don't think about it, but when there's a war, there's children, right? When there's a natural disaster, there's children and that's really what UNICEF's focus is, is the well-being of children. And not just children of whom we agree with their parents—it's all children. One of the most fascinating things I learned about the origins of UNICEF was that there is no such thing as an enemy child, which I think is a pretty important and provocative idea. But I was excited to pick back up after 25 years of not having really thought about UNICEF that much to help make this film.

Nora Ali: Can you dig into the origin a little bit more? You started sort of talking about how it was established in the wake of World War II, but how was it started? How was it funded in the early days? 

Ben Proudfoot: After the second World War, Europe was destroyed, and people were living in rubble and in poverty and there were follow-on civil wars and all kinds of crises, as you see in the movie. Hundreds of thousands of people were dying of famine in Greece, three or 400,000 people died. And so the United States said, "We got to do something." And this was also when the United Nations sort of came into being. And the first organization that helped children and refugees and women was called UNRRA: Relief and Rehabilitation. And after that had done sort of its initial push and fed people and given out shoes and whatever, they said, "We want to split this into two organizations, one for refugees and one for children." And that was UNICEF. And there was actually great opposition, interestingly enough, for UNICEF to be an ongoing thing. A lot of people...Eleanor Roosevelt opposed UNICEF being an ongoing thing.

Nora Ali: Why?

Ben Proudfoot: She felt that it should be temporary. Well, it's the same old question of like, "Is this our problem? As Americans, if another country is failing to feed its kids, is that up to us to feed them? We did our part, we helped them rebuild, and now it's up to them, self-reliance, et cetera, et cetera." And so she says, "No, UNICEF, it's over." And a lot of other people said, "No, we think this should be a permanent part of the United Nations. That the United Nations should have an always-on organization that cares about children." And obviously, it won. And in large part, UNICEF was established as a permanent organization because of a woman named Helenka Pantaleoni, who is Téa Leoni, the actress, her grandmother.

Scott Rogowsky: Wow.

Ben Proudfoot: And she was an amazing person, a big personality. And she actually was one of the major forces to start UNICEF USA, which is a fundraising organization that gives hundreds of millions of dollars to UNICEF, which is a UN agency, every year. And since its inception, UNICEF has been a majority American-funded entity that has saved hundreds of millions of lives over the course of its 75 years.

Scott Rogowsky: I think UNICEF might be the only organization in the world that can tie Eleanor Roosevelt to Téa Leoni. And that's something that should be celebrated. So we're talking about the founding of UNICEF and maintaining its position because you're right, war ends. "Okay," you can say, "That's enough." But the always-on aspect is so important. How does UNICEF maintain its funding, its interest, for 75 years to be able to have Sofia Carson now, one of the new stars of our new decade, to have you be interested in UNICEF, kind of an old organization? I know that those people don't care about the old days anymore, World War II, that's ancient history for kids today, but Sofia, you latched onto this. Why is it so important to you, personally, and to share with your followers?

Sofia Carson: I believe that there is nothing more important that I can do with my voice and with my platform than to use it to give. And UNICEF, like we've all recounted, is something that we grew up knowing about and loving and looking up to. And my mom always used the example of Audrey Hepburn, who is one of the most iconic women in history, one of the most beloved film stars, and yet she dedicated the rest of her life, as Ben knows very well, to UNICEF. To being one of their first ambassadors to giving back to children. And I always knew that if ever I was lucky enough, I would want to be a voice for UNICEF. And when they approached me a couple of years ago, I guess in 2020, in the heart of the pandemic, to be their newest ambassador, it was the easiest yes and one of the greatest honors of my life, because like you said, there's always a crisis. We have just lived one of the most extraordinary crises of our history, the last couple of years, that is still ongoing. And now the war in Ukraine, and UNICEF's work is timeless and always needed. And perhaps now more needed than ever. We're seeing what they're doing in Ukraine, what they did with the COVAX distribution, what they're doing every single day in terms of educating young girls. So when I watched the documentary that Ben so brilliantly directed, I came up to Ben and I was like, "How can I help? How can I get involved? How can I make sure that more and more people see this and know the need that is out there and more so the work that UNICEF is doing?" And it's so easy to be a part of it and so easy to help. So why not?

Nora Ali: So when UNICEF approached you to be an ambassador, what does that proposal look like? Do they have a plan for, "This is how frequently we need you to talk about it. This is where you're going to travel." Or is it kind of collaborative and it's fluid over time?

Sofia Carson: It's very much collaborative. I think I became an ambassador at an odd time because it was during the pandemic. And so unfortunately, I hadn't been able to travel as much as I would've liked to because the pandemic obviously took up the last two years, but I did have the honor of going to Brazil with UNICEF and seeing their work there right before the pandemic. We're in talks to start traveling again. So it definitely involves a couple of field trips to not only spread the word and shed light into what's happening in different parts of the world, but also for ourselves, ambassadors, to be educated as to the need that exists and what we can do. And then of course, being an executive producer on this documentary, using my voice whenever I can. I just had a campaign a couple of months ago. I released a song called "Loud" that was all about female empowerment, and we released it during Women's Month. And we had a campaign with UNICEF to raise funds for female education and also to just raise awareness about the Keeping Girls in School Act and all the incredible things that UNICEF is doing, but it's very organic and I myself am very hands on and very involved, but it depends on every ambassador.

Scott Rogowsky: Let's take a quick break with Ben and Sofia, but more when we come back. We're learning about Sofia's involvement in UNICEF, and Sofia and Ben are producers on this documentary about UNICEF. Ben, you're our history professor today. Let's dig more into the history here. Back in 1989, what happened? There were world leaders coming together to make a historic commitment to children across the world by adopting the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. Tell us about this convention and what role UNICEF played in the adoption of the treaty.

Ben Proudfoot: So you kind of have to understand a little bit of pre-roll to that moment. So this guy named Jim Grant, who took over in the late '70s, early '80s as the executive director of UNICEF, would sort of change the whole vibe. So he came in and he was this real salesman. He was a salesman par excellence, and he wasn't afraid of going in there and twisting the arms of world leaders and really saying, "You have to do something about this. You must do it," and he was good at convincing them, "This is the cheapest way that you can win reelection, is by implementing oral rehydration salts and saving the lives of children. People will love you if you save the lives of children." These were his methods. He was a shameless salesman and his product was children. So he decided that immunization really was the big one, that's what UNICEF should focus on. And you kind of have to remember this giant bureaucracy of World Health Organization, and UNICEF is old, even back then, this is a 35-year-old organization. Very much career bureaucrats. And he is saying, "We're going to really put all of our resources towards immunizing the world's children. We're going to take the immunization rate from 5% to 80% in the course of the decade." And people said he was crazy. They called him the mad American. And he said, "If we're able to do this, we're going to save hundreds of millions of lives over the next many decades." And that's what they did. And they pounded the pavement and twisted the arms of world leaders and UNICEF. And the rights of children suddenly started rising from a low-priority public health initiative to the number one issue on the sort of priority to-do list for world leaders. And they were successful. In the film there's a great sequence about how they stopped a war in El Salvador in order to immunize the children.

Scott Rogowsky: That is one of the craziest...Honestly, Ben, I trusted your journalism, but I had to Google it on my own. I had to check out Wikipedia. I said, "Wait a minute. There was a Salvadoran civil war and they took two days, every year, out of this war—both sides agreed—to have a truce, put an end to the fighting, so that kids can get immunized?" It's true!

Ben Proudfoot: Agop Kayayan, he was the UNICEF representative on the ground, and that was Jim Grant. He said, "We got to immunize the kids." Agop said, "There's a war going on." He said, "Stop the war." That was his thinking. It was like—

Nora Ali: Nothing is impossible.

Ben Proudfoot: There's got to be a way. Yeah, nothing is impossible, and with enough working...So this all culminated at the end of the '80s, going into the World Summit For Children, and this was organized by Jim Grant, and at the time it was the single largest gathering of world leaders in one place ever. They all came to the United Nations in 1990 to do this. And following that, The Convention on the Rights of the Child, that really turned UNICEF from a need-based organization where you need peanut butter, we're going to give you peanut butter. You need a pair of shoes. We're going to give you a pair of shoes, to a rights based organization, which is saying, "Children have these basic rights. And we're going to make sure that those rights are met, and really working in tandem with local governments and countries to make sure those needs are met." And this was an amazing moment in the history of the rights of children, was the CRC and all the countries have ratified it except one...the United States. That's the one final country—

Scott Rogowsky: Ouch.

Ben Proudfoot: That has not ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Nora Ali: Why? Do we know why?

Ben Proudfoot: It's because of the way that the United States makes decisions. In terms of Congress, because it's an international treaty. And my understanding is that the language of the Convention of the Rights of the Child impinges on the freedoms of Americans in some peoples' mind.

Nora Ali: Well.

Ben Proudfoot: How you could think that? For instance, if the United States adopted this convention, then you could say, "Well, you can't spank your child." Which I think is pretty reasonable: "It's a violation of children's rights." But there are many politicians who would oppose that. So it's really bad, and hopefully in our lifetimes, that will change.

Nora Ali: You mentioned that this convention was a sea change in children's rights, but did it affect UNICEF's work in that it was being taken more seriously? What were some of the biggest changes to UNICEF itself as a result of this convention?

Ben Proudfoot: That's the biggest shift, is it became a rights organization because of that. Rather than, "The kids need this, we're going to give it to them. We're saying the kid is bestowed with these rights and we are going to advocate and protect them and do whatever we can to give them what they need." Which is a much sort of higher, almost legal level of advocacy. And that's so much of what Sofia and her fellow goodwill ambassadors do, is advocate and say, "This is important. This is important." You can't get enough of that. People forget, for whatever reason, they forget about these issues. You don't think about the fact that there are children who are growing up in the world who don't have enough to eat, or who are growing up where all they've known is war and conflict. And so that's one of UNICEF's greatest roles, is advocacy, awareness, understanding, using its relationships and trust with world governments to ensure that the rights of every child are protected.

Scott Rogowsky: There are some really extraordinary things about the organization. The fact that it's part of the United Nations, which has a rap of being this feckless organization, these non-binding resolutions, and nothing really gets done. UNICEF is actually getting things done on the ground, and they're doing it across the world. A lot of charities concentrate in one place, in one area, and it's a lot easier to do that, once you can have a focus like that. But when you have to be nimble to respond to crises around the planet and use these partnerships and networking to get it done, how does UNICEF make those meaningful partnerships to make its work possible?

Ben Proudfoot: It's UNICEF's preference, in any case, to support the local government in doing whatever the work is. So it's not a UNICEF employee who's immunizing, for instance, Florence in the film, who gets her Covid immunization—that's a Ghana Health Service Worker. So that's the country itself. So UNICEF's job is to partner with the government to help provide them information, resources, expertise, relationships, et cetera, and make sure that the plan is on track, that things go well, in best practices, et cetera, et cetera. And also at that level, it's all these massive partnerships. So the COVAX initiative is a partnership with all of these giant organizations like UNICEF and Gavi and all these massive organizations that are distributing 2 billion vaccines. It's the largest vaccine supply operation of all time. And UNICEF's expertise is relationships with the local governments, a track record of having executed on giant global health executions, and really a focus on children. And what that helps with is that you can sit with a world leader all day long and talk about, "We need to deescalate this, conflict is bad, et cetera, et cetera." You might have a hard time getting through to them. But if you talk about children, doesn't matter what you believe politically, everyone cares about children in the end. And so you can achieve a lot, like stopping a civil war, because both sides don't want their kids to die needlessly of some pathogen that can be fixed with a dollar immunization. Both sides, regardless of their political position, don't want to see that happen. And so UNICEF is able to get a lot done where others fail, because it's a depoliticized organization. It's just focused on the well-being of children. Doesn't matter what their parents think about or believe. Just about kids.

Sofia Carson: During the last couple of months, we've had updates from groundwork in Afghanistan, groundwork in Ukraine, and what they're doing over there with local governments, like Ben said, it's so beautiful to see that they don't come in and impose a certain way of working or being on these governments or on these cultures. They work with them to make sure that the work that happens is organic and all the UNICEF efforts go towards that, towards making sure that the ground workers can do their job to protect first and foremost.

Scott Rogowsky: Let's take another quick break here with Ben and Sofia, but more when we return.

Nora Ali: You did an incredible job in telling these very personal stories in the documentary. So here actually is a clip for our listeners of an interview with Florence, who is a Ghanaian woman in the film discussing the difficulty of getting vaccinated in Ghana, compared to the US.

Florence Nettey: Me and the mother in America, we are the same. She's a human being. I'm a human being. It's we, the Africans, we lack the vaccine.

Nora Ali: So in this clip, a Ghanaian woman named Florence says, "Me and a mother in America, we are the same. She's a human being. I'm a human being. It's we, the Africans, we lack the vaccine." It really brings you on the ground in this documentary. Ben, can you tell us a little more about your creative process and why you decided on this storytelling format for the doc?

Ben Proudfoot: I'm very much a people-oriented person, and the documentaries that I like watching the best is where I get to meet someone and understand sort of what drives them, what motivates them, why they care, what their history is, who they are, and less about sort of a much larger idea. You watch a documentary, it's kind of about an idea or a decade or something. And you're kind of thinking about it. I'm much more interested in, who are you, what's your deal? And what is your day to day? What'd you have for breakfast? And so the film is told in that manner, through the eyes of all these different people who intersected with UNICEF in some way. Florence Nettey, who lives in Ghana, is our main character, basically. We're kind of waiting with her, understanding her and her family situation. She's a single mother. She lost her husband and the father of her children to illness. She has 10 children and she's waiting for her second dose. Meanwhile, the United States, we're 60%, 70% vaccinated with people protesting not wanting to get vaccinated. And someone like Florence in Accra in Ghana, can't wait. Is concerned about whether or not she can continue her business selling tofu, which brings her a very small amount of money, which lets her live her life. And so that's an example of a story. We have the story of the days of tranquility, which we mentioned before, the ceasefire in El Salvador during the civil war there. So we enter that through Agop Kayayan, who's this guy with an incredible raspy, very memorable voice who tells the story. He was the representative, and sort of his pressure of Jim Grant putting pressure on him to do this impossible thing of stopping the war. We have Cornelius, who's the head of Child Protection for UNICEF, talking about UNICEF today and in the future. We tracked down a little kid who was one of those little kids in Greece after the war who received peanut butter and shoes, who's now in his 80s telling the story of being helped. So it's all sort of through the eyes of someone who has an emotional connection to this moment, that also happens to be sort of a milestone moment in UNICEF's history. And I think what that allows for is a real—It's easy to sort of blow this all off like ah, yeah. Bleeding heart, the kids. Ha ha ha. Be cynical. Yeah, yeah. Help them. Help them. Whatever. Maybe we can do something about it. Maybe we can't. Whatever. But this is really serious business and important. And it gets to the core of who we are as people, and what our responsibilities are in our window of time here on the planet earth. And that's what I wanted to bring out, is I want you to meet those people who, if you had a conversation with them, you would take the mission of UNICEF that much more seriously and give you what feels like an afternoon conversation with kind of all these sort of fairy godparents that enter your life for five minutes and make you feel something about this organization and why it's so important.

Scott Rogowsky: How did you track down this old Greek man? His story was incredible, but he was just living his life and he became the mayor of his town. Really, what an amazing life, but how do you make that connection that he was one of those first people helped by UNICEF?

Ben Proudfoot: This is kind of the fun of documentary filmmaking. So we have this big deadline of the 75th anniversary. It's August. We don't know anybody in Greece, and so we just flew to Athens and said, "We're going to find somebody. We're sure that there's some kid." They helped tens of thousands of children. And that's one of the benefits of working with UNICEF. They have a country office in something, 190 countries or something like that. So the communications person there found Mr. Takis, who's in the film, and said he was a little kid who received peanut butter. He would've been one of the first people to receive aid in this manner from what was then called UNRRA, became UNICEF. And he was so great and became a doctor, became the mayor of his town, and he was someone that, this just goes to show, he's a kid that without that help would have maybe not survived, but definitely would have been scarred with an enormous amount of cynicism and trauma that they were left alone and abandoned by wealthy countries that could have helped. But instead, was made to become a doctor, become charitable himself, live his life focused on helping other people. He started a school for disabled children. And so that's what happens. He doesn't live without the trauma, but you can kind of go two ways after something like that happens to you. And because of UNICEF, he went in the way that we all need people to go, which is, I'm going to use my life as an opportunity to give others the same net and life-saving at their lowest moment. So his story was just obvious that that needed to be in the film.

Scott Rogowsky: I think about UNICEF growing up and Ben, you alluded to it yourself and Sofia, you as well. It was such a relevant part of our childhood, and I really felt it. It wasn't just the trick or treating. It just seemed like "children are the future," reminds me of the Whitney Houston song. And today it just seems like, perhaps, because things are so bad in so many different ways, there are so many problems. And with our media being so fractured, we're not getting that monolithic sense of what's important anymore. Everyone has their own agendas, their own priorities, their own charities, right? Do you feel like UNICEF is at an inflection point now where in order to maintain that for the next 25 years, the next 75 years, to be at the forefront of people's minds, is there a way for UNICEF to kind of break through all the noise and say, "Let's get back to," this basic thing that you're talk talking about today, "Children matter." Doesn't matter what their parents do, where they live. That's the most important thing, but it seems like it's a challenge in today's fractured media landscape.

Ben Proudfoot: I think what you're kind of touching on is, honestly, since I raised money as a kid, I haven't thought about UNICEF for 25 years. And honestly, if I were to think about a UNICEF ad or a UNICEF video, I would think of a pretty cheesy, I can't even think of something specific, but the way that the stories have been told have been pretty cheesy, emotionally manipulative, occasionally exploitative, et cetera, not on UNICEFs behalf, but the whole territory of raising money for children around the world. And so it's almost gotten to the point of parody of, "Help the children. The children." If you stop for a second and think about it, you're like, "This is the most important thing we can do." For real. Not even low key. This is the most important thing we can do. And so I do think it's a storytelling problem. And I also think that the idea of, there's so many horrible things happening in the world, more so than ever before—population wise, that may be true, but there's always been conflict. There has always been these kinds of things that negatively affect children. We're just very aware of them because they appear in our pocket, you rewind even 80 years, you have to go to the movie theater to watch news reels of what was happening. And that was a couple months old. So that has changed, the immediacy with which we have received all this bad news, but the problems are still there. And I think it's about connecting that the fate of the Ukrainian child crossing the border is your responsibility. It's not just something happening somewhere in some video game and some far-off place that has nothing to do with you. That is your responsibility. It's part of what you are responsible for. The same way we are all responsible for what happens. As Kul said in the movie, "This is celebrities' business. It's rock stars' business. It's presidents' and prime ministers' business. And children are your business." And so I think if we can take the story on as, "This is not just the work of the do-gooders over there, this is actually something that personally I have the responsibility to do." And you actually wear that mantle as Sofia and her fellow ambassadors have, take it on, which is a brave and hard thing to do, it would be easier to slough it off. No one would criticize you for that, but to actually take that responsibility on, that's what I hope happens in the next 10, 20, 30 years. We need it to happen.

Nora Ali: Like you said, Ben, and like Uncle Ben said in Spider-Man, "With great power comes great responsibility." And your doc gets us closer to that, is feeling that responsibility. So thank you for that.

Scott Rogowsky: Well, Ben and Sofia, it's time for a different responsibility, a responsibility to answer questions, because it's time for Quizness Casual, the Business Casual quiz. Here we go for qumero numero uno. Globally, UNICEF is the largest buyer of which of the following: bottled water, mosquito nets, peanut butter, or blankets?

Ben Proudfoot: It could be mosquito nets. I remember in the '50s, they kind of went down the wrong path with DEET and stuff like that. So maybe it's mosquito nets? But I feel like Bill Gates is big in the mosquito net business. And I don't know, I didn't come across anything mosquito net-oriented, but it could be. I don't think it's peanut butter. I think whoever wrote the question pulled that from the movie.

Scott Rogowsky: Our Greek man loves his peanut butter.

Ben Proudfoot: I think mosquito nets seems reasonable.

Nora Ali: Mosquito nets. Locking it in.

Scott Rogowsky: I love this. We're showing our work here. UNICEF purchased 25 million mosquito nets in 2006. Yes, the largest buyer of mosquito nets to protect children from harmful insect bites. Nice work.

Ben Proudfoot: Pretty good. Next. Next.

Scott Rogowsky: Virtual high five. Next. All right. All right. Final question, where is UNICEF's human resources division located: Copenhagen, Brussels, Budapest, or Japan?

Ben Proudfoot: I know that one of the largest supply operations in the world, which UNICEF owns, is in Copenhagen. It's a giant warehouse that has all their stuff. So of all those cities, my guess would be Copenhagen.

Scott Rogowsky: København. Copenhagen, good strategic location, I guess. You have the Baltic there and you could ship things around, but Budapest is home to the HR division where payroll, recruitment, trading, and deployment administration are handled. Budapest.

Ben Proudfoot: Well.

Scott Rogowsky: Hungary.

Ben Proudfoot: Can't win 'em all.

Scott Rogowsky: It's still a winning mark. And what's most winning here is the work you're doing for UNICEF, both Ben and Sofia. Thank you for all your hard work, really. I know it takes time and effort and you're putting it in. So thank you very much.

Ben Proudfoot: Thanks for giving UNICEF a platform on your show. Appreciate it.

Scott Rogowsky: Look, Nora and I love nothing more than hearing from our Business Casual community, our listeners, our family, our distant cousins...that's you, listening now. So please, write us a note. I know it's not the holidays yet, but still we want to hear what's going on with you. Just a general update on your life. Send us an email. Yeah. An email. You know what those are at businesscasual@morningbrew.com, that's the address. Or DM us on Twitter. You've heard of Twitter, Elon's going to buy it, @bizcasualpod, that's B-I-Z casual pod, with your thoughts.

Nora Ali: You can also leave us a voice memo on our website, businesscasual.fm. Or give us a ring. Leave us an old-fashioned voicemail. Our number is 862-295-1135. As Business Casual grows, we are excited to get to know our listeners, old and new. Drop us a line. And don't forget to leave your name and where you're calling or writing from so we can hear from you in a future episode.

Scott Rogowsky: Business Casual's UNICEF Drive is run by Katherine Milsop and Bella Hutchins. Additional production, sound design and suggestions for the outro by Daniel Markus. Sarah Singer is our VP of multimedia. Holly Van Leuven is our fact checker. Music in this episode from Daniel Markus and The Mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder. If you like what you heard, please follow Business Casual on Spotify, Apple podcasts, or wherever you go for that sweet, sweet pod. And we'd love it if you give us a great rating and a review.

Nora Ali: Thanks for listening to Business Casual. I'm Nora Ali.

Scott Rogowsky: And I'm Scott Rogowsky.

Nora Ali: Keep it business.

Scott Rogowsky: And keep it casual.