March 12, 2020

Special Episode: Downtown Josh Brown on How Coronavirus Moves Markets

After 11 long years and countless satisfied 401(k)s, the longest-ever bull market in stocks has ended (at least for the Dow). Investors, ravaged by coronavirus fears and unsure of who should step in when, are licking wounds and reevaluating allocations.

After 11 long years and countless satisfied 401(k)s, the longest-ever bull market in stocks has ended (at least for the Dow). Investors, ravaged by coronavirus fears and unsure of who should step in when, are licking wounds and reevaluating allocations.

But what’s actually happening beneath all the doomsday headlines and major S&P 500 point losses? When will all this no good very bad sentiment hit the economy? And is a recession on the way?

We’ve got the answers. In this special episode of Business Casual, host and recovering markets reporter Kinsey Grant talks with expert financial adviser Downtown Josh Brown to get to the bottom of how the coronavirus is impacting markets...and what you can do about it.

FYI: We recorded this episode midday Wednesday. Before the Dow technically fell into bear territory. And President Trump restricted travel from Europe for 30 days. And the NBA suspended its season. And Tom Hanks announced he tested positive for coronavirus. News comes at you fast.

Listen now for a more informed conversation.


Downtown Josh Brown on How Coronavirus Moves Markets

Note: Business Casual transcripts are generated using speech recognition software and human transcription. They may contain errors, although we do our best to avoid them. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting a transcript in print. Questions? Errors found in a transcript? Email 


[00:00:02] [sound of coffee being poured, intro music plays]


Kinsey Grant, Morning Brew business editor and podcast host [00:00:07] Hey everybody, and welcome to Business Casual the sometimes weekly podcast for Morning Brew answering the biggest questions in business. I'm your host and Brew business editor, Kinsey Grant. 


Kinsey [00:00:17] Now let's get into it. So for a couple of months, I've been telling you that I'm talking to the experts about the biggest questions in business. And some of those questions are more timely than others, like the streaming wars, when Disney+ came out. Some are more evergreen, like breaking up big tech almost whenever. Others, like what I'm talking about today, are so timely they get released outside of our usual Tuesday morning schedule. 


Kinsey [00:00:38] But right now, there is no bigger question in business than what's going on in the markets in the wake of the coronavirus epidemic. I've gotten countless messages from listeners asking what's going on and I understand why. What's happening here on Wall Street has been nothing short of astounding. On Monday, markets had their worst day since 2008. On Tuesday, the S&P recouped almost half of that giant loss from the day before. And honestly, who knows what's going to happen today on Wednesday when we're recording this episode. But as I'm going into the booth, the Dow is down about a thousand points. Right now there's a lot of uncertainty, and you know that with that uncertainty will come people trying to explain away what's going on or stir more panic or generally just get on Twitter and fan some flames. But that's not doing you or me any good. Today, people need insight and clarity and real world explanations of what's going on because even if you don't have a 401(k) to worry about, the way the stock market moves and the underlying causes for those moves matter to you. 


Kinsey [00:01:35] So today we're putting in a little extra work to get you answers to your questions in this extra Business Casual episode. I’m going to have a fast paced conversation here with a friend of Business Casual, Downtown Josh Brown. Josh, welcome back to the show. 


Josh Brown, CEO of Ritholtz Wealth Management [00:01:48] Thank you so much for having me. 


Kinsey [00:01:49] Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you again. And we are remote since a lot of people in and around New York are limiting travel due to this coronavirus. But it's it's great to have you back on. 


Josh [00:02:00] Kinsey. 


Josh [00:02:01] I am I am in head to toe bubble wrap and I am not seeing people this week. Really? No. You know what? I'm not even kidding. 


Josh [00:02:08] I'm on immunosuppressants because I have Crohn's disease. And my doctor was just like, look, if you don't have to go to Penn Station this week, maybe  take a break. Let's see what's going on, because I'm more susceptible than most people. Also I'm 85 years old. 


Josh [00:02:27] So between those two things,. 


Kinsey [00:02:29] Ok I don't believe that. But it's tough out there. I mean, are you just staying home the entire week? Do you have snacks? I would be terrified of being quarantined. That's my biggest concern. 


Kinsey [00:02:39] can I be totally honest that, like, I don't have any food. 


Josh [00:02:42] Bigget concern is if I have snacks? 


Kinsey [00:02:43] I hope you do. All right. 


Kinsey [00:02:44] You're like an adult. You probably have snacks in your house. 


Josh [00:02:46] I'm adulting hard, but I'm snacking hard too.


Kinsey [00:02:49] OK. So quickly, like I mentioned just a second ago, you've been on the show before you came on to talk with me about the U.S. China trade war back in the fall. You are the CEO of Ritholtz wealth management, the Twitter. What is it? The chairman of the Twitter Fed, I believe, is your your Twitter bio at the Reformed Broker. 


Josh [00:03:07] It's kind of a nickname I picked up along the way. 


Josh [00:03:11] I'm a wealth manager in Manhattan. We work with high net worth families managing about 1.3 trillion or so depending on what Apple is doing today. But then we've got an automated financial advisor site that people who haven't yet built up their savings to a million dollars, young people, probably people like this audience. It's called liftoff invest. So they find that a And so between those two types of clients, we have very different message for both because for our clients who are, you know, five or 10 years away from retirement, this is very concerning. 


Kinsey [00:03:48] Right. 


Josh [00:03:48] They're seeing money that they plan to spend within the next decade in motion. And motion is not what you're looking for when you're thinking about using that money soon. For people, though, on the other end of the spectrum, probably like most Morning Brew listeners, this is like an incredible opportunity. If you are liquid and you're saving enough to be able to put money to work. And it shouldn't — look it shouldn't make you regret 401(k) contributions that you made in January with the market 20 percent higher, because at the end of the day, you can't use that money for 40 years. So what's the difference? Right. I mean, look, we don't root for people to be sick, of course, but you can buy the S&P 500 20% off where it was selling a month ago. It's an incredible opportunity for people who are forward thinking and smart. 


Kinsey [00:04:44] OK. So it's a bargain. 


Josh [00:04:46] So, you know, how do you speak to both groups and say two different things? That's the challenge for my firm and for me personally. 


Kinsey [00:04:54] OK. And I also feel like I have to say, you kind of get into the nitty gritty here. I, Kinsey Grant, am in no way a license investment professional. Josh, you are a financial advisor, but, well, we'll let you decide what you want to say and what you don't. So you kind of have brought up this idea that there are two different groups of people who you right now as a professional are approaching conversations with, but I think the general question, if you had to answer for both of those groups, for anybody listening to the show, what the heck is going on? Like what is happening that is causing all of this volatility and all of this froth in the markets? And I think I've seen the word whipsaw like a million times in the last week and a half. If you had to answer in a question, what's going on, what would you say? 


Josh [00:05:33] Well, so I see a lot of people calling this panic selling. But I actually don't think it's particularly panicky. Volumes are high. A lot of money is moving, for sure people are getting hurt, but I've seen true panic selling. And even though we had a halt yesterday and they closed the markets for 15 minutes, which is a circuit breaker, they call it, anytime the S&P 500 sells off 7 percent they halt the market. That circuit breaker is designed to cool people off so that the buyers and sellers have a chance to regroup and decide whether or not they really just want to keep going at a waterfall of everyone selling all at once. And actually, it worked on Monday. 


Kinsey [00:06:24] So you do think it was effective?


Josh [00:06:26] It was absolutely effective. 


Josh [00:06:28] Now there are people that want to get rid of it because they say all it's doing is delaying the inevitable and getting down to the prices where we should be at. I don't know if I agree with that. I like that they're doing this. It's a 30 year old regulation that that's been in place. And and it actually came about during or in the aftermath of the 1987 crash, where stocks went down almost 23 percent in a single day. I don't think the stock market should ever go down 23 percent a single day. So I like that there's a circuit breaker. 


Josh [00:06:58] And the following day yesterday, we recording this Wednesday so on Tuesday, you had a 1000 point comeback in the Dow and pretty much everything went up 5 percent. So today we're back selling again. I don't think it's panicky and I don't think it's irrational. To answer your question directly, Kinsey, what's going on is that it was all good just a month ago to paraphrase Jay-Z now we're pricing in a recession and it's very likely if we're really going to do what they're doing in Italy and South Korea and just shut down and cancel everything and empty the airports and empty the subways and cease commuter traffic to and from work, especially in the coastal cities, it would be impossible to do all of that and not have at least a statistical economic contraction. 


Josh [00:07:49] And if that goes on for two months, the NBER, which is the National Bureau of Economic Research, will have to officially declare that, yes, Q1 and Q2 of 2020 were recessionary back to back quarters. 


Josh [00:08:08] So that's what that's what's happening. And it makes sense. This is what should happen. There is a big change in the economy and stock prices and expectations and feelings should readjust to that reality. We can't pretend it's not happening. 


Kinsey [00:08:24] Do you think yes or no that we are headed for a recession in the next quarter? 


Josh [00:08:28] Yes. 


Kinsey [00:08:29] So you say that this doesn't feel like panic selling. It kind of feels a little panicky from my perspective here. I think one of the best indicators to me in my couple of years here of covering markets is when I get people who I haven't spoken to in a while e-mailing me or texting me, asking what I should do with my money, that that seems a little panicky to me. 


Josh [00:08:50] I'm going to tell you why it feels that way. Well, first of all, people that haven't been around for a while definitely are feeling a sense of panic, especially if they just started investing recently, because if you just started investing recently, things went down. 


Josh [00:09:07] Well we went from a 52-week high four weeks ago to a 52-week low. Tree weeks ago. Excuse me. It is the fastest ever sell off from a new high to a 52-week low of all time. It's never happened. It's never happened in recorded history of the S&P 500, which began in 1957. So from that standpoint, the panic makes perfect sense. It's quick. It's 17 days from that high to that low. So that's one reason. 


Josh [00:09:40] But I'm going to tell you the other reason, which is really interesting. And it reminds me of trading after 9/11. People are not just afraid of what the stock market is doing. 


Josh [00:09:50] They're also afraid for their health and for their parents' health and their grandparents' health. And some you know, they have young children at home. People are afraid of getting sick. And when that fear instinct takes over, what happens is we start conflating the two things, losing money in the market and oh, my God, 20 percent of the people that get this thing end up in the hospital. And I read somewhere as many as 2 percent are dying. So those things are combining in this primeval part of our brain. And we can't help it — we can't help conflating the two things.


Josh [00:10:26] And so I think the speed and the fact that we're worried about getting sick are combining to make this seem like it's a much more panicky moment. I brought up 9/11. I just want to get to that really quickly. I was in my 20s when when that took place and I really wasn't very experienced, but I would say that this feels very much like that atmosphere because I was living and working in New York City. 


Josh [00:10:51] And after 9/11, every day after there were new rumors and new pieces of news hitting the tape, there's a suitcase bomb. There's gonna be an anthrax envelope. There's another crash that no one told you. Like those headlines would hit the tape — a suspicious package found in Grand Central Terminal. Right. We didn't have Twitter then. So that news would hit Dow Jones and the stock market would lurch down 300 more points, which was a lot of points back then. So this feels very similar that every time we hear about another school district being closed or another city all of a sudden recording an outbreak, the stock market is reacting. 


Josh [00:11:32] It's very, very much like the aftermath of 9/11 in the way I feel right now is how I felt then. And once again, we were not just worried about losing money in the market after 9/11. We literally thought our lives were at risk, especially working in Manhattan. 


Josh [00:11:51] And then as now, there are life and death issues that are more important than volatility in the stock market but again, we are conflating all these illnesses together. 


Kinsey [00:12:01] And you make an interesting point that you were in your 20s when 9/11 happened. And I think a lot of the people who are probably listening to Business Casual right now have mostly invested in a bull market. I mean, we just had 11 years of a bull market. No one really understands what it's like to invest in the markets without the sort of comfort knowing that yeah, it'll probably go back up. But I think it's worth driving home the point that statistically speaking, it might go down again very soon, it seems likely, but at the end of the day, things go back up eventually. It just depends on where you are in your investing timeline and your investing career. I mean, if you're like you said at the top of the episode, five years out from retirement, you're maybe sweating this a little bit more than someone who like me, 25 years old and still has what seems like a lifetime or an entire career to invest ahead of her. 


Josh [00:12:47] So we we've spent this week and last week and the week before as financial advisors talking with very wealthy people who have seen big declines in their retirement portfolios. But these are people that, you know, if if the S&P declines by 14 percent, you have 10 million dollars invested in a mix of stocks and bonds. So you didn't take the full downside of the stock market because bonds went up. So you have something offsetting that. But, yes, you have a material dollar losses in retirement accounts. And if you are 65, you don't have the years in front of you to replace that income. You're not like still working and earning as much as you were when you were in your 40s and 50s. So that that is definitely a legitimate concern that investors have. And the good news is there are there are advisors all over the country having those conversations with clients about not overreacting to short term volatility. 


Kinsey [00:13:47] Right. And this should be people's lesson, right to diversify your portfolio when you're younger and start getting used to that. 


Josh [00:13:54] That's right. And the thing is, it comes down to like there are different personality types of people. So there are people that would say, you know what I traded through 9/11, I remember that we thought bin Laden was going to strike again any moment. I remember that, you know, I remember that period and I didn't panic then so I'm not going to panic now. There are definitely people that are, you know, that are boomers that were around 20 years ago when that happened and they remember that the right lesson was to stick through it. 


Josh [00:14:24] But the thing is, it always feels different, so every bear market, which I think statistically, if we're not in one yet, we're right there. We're either down 19 or 20 percent as we're recording this. Every bear market feels like it's different for different reasons and they always are. 


Josh [00:14:41] So, you know, not everyone has that perspective where they can say, OK, this sucks, I'm not having fun. It was much more fun when Apple was going up 2 percent a day and Nvidia was going up 5 percent a week. That was that was way cooler than this. And now we're in this different environment, like there are people who can can get get themselves mentally prepared for that. And then there are people that really can't. And I think when you see selling, you have to just say, like, all right, maybe it's rational for some people to have made some sales. Not everybody needs to be as fully invested in a bear market as they were in a bull market. 


Kinsey [00:15:18] OK. I want to talk more about those people who might be kind of pricing in that sort of preparation for selling in just a second but really quickly, going to take a short break to hear from our partner. 


Kinsey [00:15:29] And now back to the conversation with Downtown Josh Brown. So you're saying before how it was a lot more fun when Apple was constantly going up and everybody was like always in the green and it was awesome and we're all super psyched. But a lot of talk now on kind of financial Twitter, FinTwit is BTFD, right? Like "Buy the 'effing dip." Are you engaging in a little BTFD right now? 


Josh [00:15:53] So we are a rules based investment advisory, which means we don't get to make good decisions about what to do. We we invest quantitatively. We do rebalances this. The asset allocations are all based on. So what we've done is we've decided in advance. This is how we're going to manage the portfolio. We don't make decisions when markets feel great or feel terrible because those decisions will inevitably be emotional. 


Josh [00:16:23] So we've taken our own gut instincts and opinions and and biases out of the process. 


Kinsey [00:16:28] Do you feel like you're missing an opportunity for some bargain deals? 


Josh [00:16:32] So the second half of what I want to say is —


Josh [00:16:36] Well, so look, our our 401(k)s all the employees of my firm, mine, all the partners, we invest in the same strategies alongside our clients. So the same funds they buy, we buy. The same time they rebalance, we rebalance. That's very important to us that we eat our own cooking. But then like most normal people, you know, some of us own some individual stocks on the side, things that we bought because we are a fan of the company and use the product, et cetera. So I have some money in individual stocks. 


Josh [00:17:06] One of the tricks that I've always used for these types of moments is putting in what I call crash fits. So I will look for stocks that I've always been kicking myself that I didn't own. And I'll ultimately do this in like an I.R.A. or a SAP or a rollover. But I'll say like, oh, man, I always wished that I'd never I didn't sell Berkshire and I still own the Berkshire Hathaway B shares. So I will put in a bid that's like 15, 20 percent below where it's trading. And it's like a mental trick where you almost start rooting for the markets to go lower so your bid will get filled. The way I do this is with a buy limit order, which anyone can do on any brokerage platform. 


Josh [00:17:46] And I'll make it good till canceled meaning it's not just an order for that day, but it's it'll sit there for nine months. So I'll do that with stocks like Starbucks, Nike, Berkshire Hathaway. I've done it in the past with Apple, with Facebook, with Netflix. Disney. So like there are stocks that that people have always said, I missed that one, I missed that one. 


Josh [00:18:10] Crash bids are a really great mental trick to get you in the mode of not being so concerned with market selling off and more being like, oh, you know what's cool? If this gets any worse, I might get hit on my Nike bid at 65 or 70 or my Starbucks bid at 68, whatever. And I'm not giving those prices for anyone to follow them, I'm just giving an example. 


Josh [00:18:34] So that's an interesting trick that I think anyone can do and I've been doing that for 15 years and I've ended up stealing stocks. Like just getting ridiculously low prices during these types of events. People are always like I'm going to buy when it gets lower. Or I'm going to buy the dip. Here's the thing. The news is not going to be better when the market is lower. It's going to be harder. So we're at Dow 24000-ish. It's going to be harder to buy a Dow 20000 or Dow 22000 than it is now, even though the market will be cheaper. I promise you, the news flow that it's going to take for us to get there is going to be way worse. You're not going to do it manually. So if you set this up to do this automatically and automate the process, there's a better chance that you will, in fact, take advantage of these buying opportunities. 


Kinsey [00:19:28] Okay. Let's kind of them out a little bit more from beyond just the more specific market moves here. We think about the economy as a whole. What are your thoughts here? I mean, we've, we've seen some people come out and say that this is going to hit consumer spending. The impact of supply chains with a lot of a lot of things shut down in China is going to impact businesses really soon and that hits their stock price but it all trickles down kind of from there. What are your thoughts kind of broadly on the future economic slowdown that people are pricing in right now? At what point do you see that kind of coming down the pipe? 


Josh [00:20:03] Well, I think it'll be broad based, but as in all economic recessions, I think some areas will be hit harder than others. Without a doubt, anything related to travel, leisure, entertainment, hospitality. It's going to be really tough. And there's this whole other contingent of like oil stocks that are getting killed because the Saudis and the Russians decided this would be a good time to have a price war and maybe put U.S. shale producers out of business by just pumping to death and dropping the price per barrel of oil globally. So that's happening,


Josh [00:20:42] That's not going to be good not only for the oil and gas industry, but that really disproportionately hits certain regions. Oklahoma and Texas had probably the equivalent of a recession in many regions in 2015 and 2016 when the price of oil fell from 80 to 20. So you're going to see a replay of that and maybe this time it's even worse. And you've got a lot of companies that borrow too much in the oil sector, 


Josh [00:21:07] so you will also see bankruptcies. I don't think there's any way to stop that now. Even if there's some sort of a federal bailout. So it's going to be a lot worse in some regions and just feel worse in some industries. 


Kinsey [00:21:18] OK. Let's talk about this idea of a federal bailout. We've kind of mulled over some of the different approaches that the government is taking in terms of trying to solve some of these problems. What do you think is going to work better? Is it going to be another rate cut from the Fed? We got an emergency rate cut last week, but kind of feel like markets are maybe pricing that in a little bit. Do we see more fiscal policy from Congress happening? Do you think that the tax cut that we've been hearing about from the president is actually going to happen? A payroll tax cut? What do you what do you see being the most effective? 


Josh [00:21:51] I understand the idea behind the tax cut. You're hoping that by doing something with the payroll tax, which is the cost. 


Josh [00:22:03] So I employ 31 people. It costs me something beyond just the salary. I paid those people to have them as employees. There's payroll taxes, Social Security that the employer pays, et cetera, et cetera. So the idea is that people won't get laid off as quickly from hard hit industries or businesses. 


Kinsey [00:22:21] Because it'll cost less to employ them. 


Josh [00:22:23] Yeah. You know, maybe it's a good idea. 


Kinsey [00:22:28] That kind of feels like a big if. 


Josh [00:22:30] Yeah. I think it would be more effective to just literally put the money in people's hands who lose their jobs. And maybe like double unemployment insurance for for certain segments — I don't really I don't really feel very strongly that that's going to help, 


Josh [00:22:46] but I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. Maybe it doesn't solve anything. 


Josh [00:22:50] I think the best use of federal stimulus right now would probably be something to bail out the airlines, the travel industry, which is really going to need it and just this massive, like almost overdone response to the health care situation. We are not going to have enough hospital beds in certain parts of the country. We're not going to have enough people staffing these hospitals if the quarantines keep up. And there should be like a Marshall Plan for rebuilding our capability to have vaccines for all of this stuff. 


Josh [00:23:29] So I would love to see just some insane response on the health care side, like just throw a trillion dollars at it. And we're fortunate that our government can borrow now almost for free. This is the thing to do it for. Like I don't recommend the government just sell more debt because it can. Sell more debt because we have stuff that needs to be, like we have shit to do. So let's do that. Let's do a really, really big overwhelming health care response so that the next time something like this happens, we're more prepared than we were today. 


Kinsey [00:24:05] OK. Perfect segue. So I kind of opened up the floor on social media. I know you saw as well asking people for questions that they wanted to get an answer from you about. I'm gonna go into some of those questions and one that we got a couple of times was if government officials like you're talking about had kind of put aside this money or had planned to spend something like a trillion dollars in beefing up our health care system and making sure that those systems were in place before we kind of reached this level of what the hell is going on? Should we be panicked? would it have prevented a drop in the market as sharp as we saw this last week. Do you think that kind of getting ahead of this would have saved us from the worst day since 2008? 


Josh [00:24:47] It has to be honest if you go back through history. There is no example of us ever getting ahead of. 


Kinsey [00:24:55] Us as in the US, as in the United States? 


Josh [00:24:58] The way our politics work, we always are reacting to something. Nobody would build something for a crisis they couldn't yet imagine. I don't feel like it's realistic to have expected the government to be ready for something like this. 


Josh [00:25:15] Maybe we could be more ready. But for sure, this will be something that we'll be ready for next time. And that's just the nature of how these these things go,


Josh [00:25:24] we're always fighting the last war. 


Kinsey [00:25:25] But haven't we had like pandemic illnesses like this before?


Josh [00:25:31] In recent memory, 


Josh [00:25:34] they didn't become full blown economically. So H1N1 was 2009. 


Kinsey [00:25:41] Swine flu, right? Or bird flu. 


Josh [00:25:43] That actually that actually originated in North America. It was not a stock market or economic story. You know why? Because we were already there. The stock market was already cut in half by 2009. We were already in the midst of the worst recession since the 1930s. So there was almost no room on the front page of The Wall Street Journal for anything related to swine flu. 


Kinsey [00:26:09] Worse shit was already happening. 


Josh [00:26:10] Other shit going on. 


Josh [00:26:12] Yeah. Mean, we were dealing with the bail outs of every bank and insurance company in the country. And mass unemployment and a stock market crash that kept on crashing. So this is different. This thing came along with the stock market at an all time high, unemployment at an all time record low and GDP just generally cruising along at like 2, 2.5 percent. So this came along in good times, not bad, and maybe that's why it's become a bigger market story


Josh [00:26:42] but the truth is, this is going to be much more disruptive than swine flu was to the economy because we are much more focused on services now. And, you know, this is no longer like an economy based on manufacturing. Manufacturing has been in decline for years and years. It's a services slash experiences economy. All of the growth in the economy has been about human to human contact, going to events, going to concerts, going to baseball games and basketball games and, you know, young people flocking to the downtown areas of cities and not being in the suburbs. So this is very disruptive to the way the economy is oriented now. 


Kinsey [00:27:26] And that has a much more outsized impact on the economy than say like, I don't know, I'm not going to buy a new vacuum this year or something like that.


Josh [00:27:33] That's exactly right. 


Kinsey [00:27:35] This is another question that we got a couple of times from listeners. What should the business response be? We've kind of hashed out some of the different things tax that the government could take. But what should a CEO be saying or doing right now to help get through this? 


Josh [00:27:51] Well, what's interesting about this moment is that it really shows where the leadership in this country is. 


Josh [00:27:56] It's in the hospitals themselves. It's state governors and it's the Fortune 500. Johns Hopkins is now putting out this daily bulletin on and like everything that's going on and how to think about the news. Like they're more comprehensive public awareness work than the CDC. Johns Hopkins, a private college. They're acting — I don't wanna see they're acting as a government agency, but they are filling the role that normally you would expect, like leaders in Washington to fill. I mean leaders in Washington are tweeting about Democrats versus Republicans. These people are fucking out to lunch. 


Josh [00:28:42] So I think that that's good. Fortune 500 CEOs are telling their employees not to show up in certain situations and other situations they're curtailing travel. Like they're not waiting for the president who is saying everything's fine. It's no big deal, act normally, like they're not waiting for the president to come to grips with this. They're acting first. So I think there's been really strong leadership from companies like Google, for example, and we make a huge list, you know, later on. Events themselves. They don't want the liability. They're eating millions of dollars in losses by by either canceling or postponing. So we're seeing St. Patrick's Day parades being canceled. 


Josh [00:29:25] We're seeing South by Southwest eating a big loss. Coachella is moving to the fall. So that's really responsible behavior on the part of venues and events themselves. And then lastly, the hospitals, these are where the heroes are. 


Josh [00:29:41] So I use the 9/11 analogy before and it was police and firefighters and EMTs and first responders. The heroes of this crisis are the people standing in an emergency room waiting for God knows what to be brought to their doorstep and then being honest enough to self-quarantine themselves when they feel symptoms coming on or they recognize that they have been in contact with somebody that might have the virus. So, like we may not have great leadership coming from Washington, but the business community, health care professionals and and state governors are filling in the void and I think we should be thankful that there are so many people willing to step in and take these actions.


Kinsey [00:30:31] And be the adults in the room when when they need to be,. 


Josh [00:30:33] You can't say it's not happening. 


Josh [00:30:34] It's just not happening where you would expect. It is happening. 


Kinsey [00:30:38] All right. OK. Josh, I think that we we've kind of touched on a lot of these big picture issues. And I feel a lot better after having this conversation that it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, doomsday prepper situation here. There is still opportunity out there, but let's all just approach this in a calm, cool, collected way and recognize what's right in front of us and try to do what we can to not get sick. So thank you so much for coming back to Business Casual for taking the time. I'm sure you're in high demand. I think you called this what like the Super Bowl for financial advisers right now and when people need them again. So thank you so much. 


Josh [00:31:16] It really is. Kinsey, thank you so much for having me. And to everyone in the Morning Brew audience, I'll just leave you with — never forget your ABCs: Always be cool. 


Kinsey [00:31:30] Always be cool. Perfect. 


Josh [00:31:32] We will get through this. 


Kinsey [00:31:33] All right. Thanks, Josh.


Josh [00:31:35] Talk to you later. 


[00:31:38] [outro music starts]


Kinsey [00:31:41] Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Business Casual with Downtown Josh Brown. I hope you learned something and got some more answers about what's going on with the markets and what you should be doing with your own investments. And as you learned, things are constantly changing,


Kinsey [00:31:55] so if you have more questions, email me at That's k-i-n-s-e-y And I'll do what I can to get you an answer. And in the meantime, I'll see you back here on Tuesday. 


Transcribed by Marilyn Haigh.