May 5, 2022

How a Celebrity Money Manager Can Help You Avoid Overspending

Solid financial advice whether you’re making $60K or $60 million


Nora and Scott chat with Hollywood business manager Kristin Lee, founder of the accounting firm KLBM, who manages the finances for high-level celebrities with personal net worths in the millions. She details how she built her career, manages relationships with her clients and navigates thorny conversation around overspending. 

 

Hosts: Nora Ali & Scott Rogowsky

Producer: Bella Hutchins 

Production, Mixing & Sound Design: Daniel Markus

Music: Daniel Markus & Breakmaster Cylinder

Senior Producer: Katherine Milsop

VP, Head of Multimedia: Sarah Singer 

 

Check out the full transcript of this episode below. 

Transcript

Nora Ali: From Morning Brew, this is Business Casual, the podcast that reveals the unexpected business story behind everything. I'm Nora Ali.

Scott Rogowsky: And I'm Scott Rogowsky. Nora and I are here for your ears, bringing you conversations with creators, thinkers, and innovators who can tell us what it all means and why we should care. Now let's get down to business.

Scott Rogowsky: Nora.

Nora Ali: Yes, Scott.

Scott Rogowsky: Look at us. Just two hotshot podcasters shooting to the top of the industry.

Nora Ali: Yeah.

Scott Rogowsky: Where do you think we are on the list between A to F, what's the lowest?

Nora Ali: Is there no such thing as a Z-list celeb?

Scott Rogowsky: Is there a Z list?

Nora Ali: I don't know.

Scott Rogowsky: We're not Z.

Nora Ali: We're not Z.

Scott Rogowsky: At least T.

Nora Ali: We're like...

Scott Rogowsky: Where would you put us?

Nora Ali: I mean, you're a known entity. You're like C-list, Scott, right? B even, maybe.

Scott Rogowsky: I don't know. I don't know what the thresholds are for the list now, but...

Nora Ali: We're on there. That's it. We're in the alphabet.

Scott Rogowsky: We're on the list. We would get into the club if there was a list, but we're not quite in the realm of needing our guest services today. Are we?

Nora Ali: No, definitely not. I did just Google celebrity overspending, because that was part of the topic of conversation today. And there's an article on gobankingrates.com, and I'm kind of surprised by the list. One not surprising person on this list is Heidi Montag. Did you ever watch The Hills?

Scott Rogowsky: She's married to Spencer Pratt?

Nora Ali: Spencer Pratt. Yeah, they were worth, reportedly, according to this, accumulated a $10 million fortune, and then she launched a debut album called Superficial, that failed. And then she was spending a million dollars on handbags, on clothes, ate away at her net worth. So it's much lower than $10 million now. But we learned it's not that uncommon for people to overspend when they come into a bunch of money all of a sudden.

Scott Rogowsky: But look, let's be fair here. It is a crazy thing when whatever you're doing... Athletes, we talk about athletes on draft day, all of a sudden going from a high school student, or working at a car wash, to now millions of dollars in the bank because they're drafted by a pro team. Or a singer who goes viral, Olivia Rodrigo, how much money did she have three, four years ago compared to today? So when you do come into fortune like this, it's hard to know what to do with the money. And that's why some of these people hire a Kristin Lee, for example.

Nora Ali: That's right. And Kristin Lee is the founder of KLBM, which is a business management firm for the entertainment industry. Kristin's clients are actors, recording artists, producers, writers, and athletes with personal net worths ranging from $1 million to $50 million. Kristin works closely with A-listers to manage their taxes, investments, and especially their overspending, and sometimes mental health even comes into play. Our conversation with Kristin is after a quick break.

Scott Rogowsky: Kristin, we're excited to talk to you because Nora and I are approaching the A-list rapidly, thanks to this podcast. We're about C plus, maybe B minus, but we're getting there. We're we're on our way up and we're going to need your services pretty soon, I'm quite confident.

Kristin Lee: I love it.

Scott Rogowsky: But tell the folks there listening exactly what it is you do. You started your career for a different business management agency, and now you got your own firm, KLBM. Talk us through your start in this interesting and niche business of business management, specifically for celebs.

Kristin Lee: I started at a bigger business management firm a long time ago now actually, I think we're approaching 15 years ago. And I worked at a couple of the really big firms for a number of years while just kind of learning the ropes of everything and doing the whole crawl before you can walk thing. And I got to a smaller, more boutique firm at a certain point and just started to build my client roster there. And then I just decided that it was time to move on and start my own thing. So I started KLBM eight years ago now. It's been an interesting ride.

Scott Rogowsky: So I've been in the entertainment industry for a little bit. And for those who aren't in it, or don't know exactly how all the layers work and the different team members, let's break it down for them, because I want to see where you fit into the picture here. So for example, you got a manager, I have a manager who manages, I guess, projects that come in, and maybe they'll be a producer on certain things. They'll chase down the money and they'll talk to the agent. And then the agent is the person who's supposed to be getting you the jobs, bringing you the offers, negotiating for higher pay. Of course, they want more and all the time. You've got the lawyer who's going to check the contracts, make sure everything's good, and exclusivities and terms and all that thing. Explain where exactly you fit in. And it really ties down to the finances, the personal spending, right?

Kristin Lee: Yeah. It's business and personal. I like to think we're kind of at the center of it all. We really liaise with every single one of those people that you just mentioned. So we've got to do budgeting and financial planning on all kinds of projects, whether it's shooting a film, music video, or going on a tour or making a record. We're looking at those numbers as well as keeping the day-to-day operations of those things going. Everybody's got to get paid, there's payroll, there's commissions to be paid for all the team members. We got to make sure that the money is being collected for all these said projects and that it's correct when it's coming in. And then of course you've got the owners, which are our clients, that own these different kind of subsets of their business and their personal lives that go along with that, houses and cars and family members and all kinds of other things.

Scott Rogowsky: Kristin, a lot of your clients are CEOs of their own brands, as we like to say today. They've got their own startups, their businesses, but as Nora mentioned earlier, you yourself are an entrepreneur. Take us back to the moment where you left the other companies that you were working for and said, "It's time for me to start out on my own." What inspired you to do that?

Kristin Lee: I knew when I started doing business management right from the start that this is kind of the end-all-be-all for me. And the goal was always to be a partner at a firm. And I had some lofty goals at the last firm that I was at. And I think the other partners' goals for me didn't align with where I saw myself going. And maybe I was a little ahead of myself, my ego was definitely there. And I just felt like it was time. I had a little bit of encouragement from other people around me, too, and had seen what I was doing and kind of gave me the confidence. My boss at the time gave me a lot of confidence. He leaned on me very much. So much so that I really believed in myself and that it was a good time for me to start. Yeah. Looking at my own options. I just think it's a gut feeling that you get where you're like, okay, this is my time. And there's probably never a perfect time, it's really hard to go out on your own, it's really scary. I mean, you can plan everything down to the T, but you're still going to get hit with surprises and you've got to be prepared for that no matter what. So I just made sure that if everything went upside down, that I was going to be okay financially really for the next six-to-12 months, without freaking out. And I mean, that's if I went out and made no money at all. So luckily that didn't happen, but I would say definitely plan to be financially secure, I would say for at least a year if you're going to start your own business.

Scott Rogowsky: And were you able to bring some of those clients over to your own KLBM firm from these other places? Was that a little touchy maybe with the old bosses?

Kristin Lee: Sure. Yeah, definitely. But-

Nora Ali: But business.

Kristin Lee: Yeah, it's business and it wasn't anything that didn't come from my personal relationships anyway. So I felt that I was entitled to that. And at the end of the day, it's really up to my clients. When I told them what I was doing, a lot of them were like, "Well, you're not leaving us, right? We're going with you." And yeah, I've been very fortunate to have my clients stick with me through all of it.

Scott Rogowsky: You got the ride-or-dies. That's nice.

Nora Ali: Well, that is amazing, to have that loyalty, to have that trust. Let's take this moment to take a quick break. More with Kristin when we come back. Kristin, for people who are going out on their own and starting their own companies, you have to go through this process of coming up with your mission, your vision, your values. And what we love is one thing you were very intentional about, it seems like a value of yours, you made a point to hire in all-female staff. Why was that important to you?

Kristin Lee: I've worked in a male-dominated industry for over 20 years now. And it's just so much easier for me, I think, to work with other very intelligent women who understand that. Honestly it just kind of removes some roadblocks, some very basic roadblocks, whether or not men in the industry know that they're doing it, sometimes it just happens. Also, they were just the better candidate, they were naturally just the better candidates overall. So it was pretty easy to deal with some pretty amazing women that work with me.

Nora Ali: What were some of those roadblocks you had experienced in the past, or moments of friction, when working with men and others who perhaps didn't share your values?

Kristin Lee: I think, wildly unintentional, but being a young woman with just kind of a lot of gusto behind her, I don't know that I was necessarily taken seriously, as seriously as I wanted to be. Or just people get this thing in their head of you, haven't had enough time, you need to kind of nurture this more and foster more before you go to the next level, and I just disagree with that. I'm kind of willing to just go for it. I feel like that's kind of the risk you have to take if you really want something and you want to move forward, is you've got to go out there. You got to stick your neck out there. You've got to give it a try. You might fail a little bit here and there and stumble, but you're just going to sit in the same spot if you don't actually try and put yourself out there and keep trying to level up, and keep taking on new things and keep going for new challenges and more challenges. And so, yeah, I just think by specific industry is relatively antiquated, I would say, in terms of the overall entertainment industry, too, just being based in accounting and finance. So yeah, I just think that there's just that roadblock. It's a big one.

Nora Ali: Yeah, and not just in entertainment. I think we see across industries, if you're a woman or a person of color or other largely underrepresented person, or from an underrepresented group, you have to have more of a track record, more experience, to get trusted with the same tasks. So when you're hiring, do you like to give people a chance who maybe don't have the prerequisite skills or track record? And you're like, "Hey, come work with me. I'll help nurture you. And you can grow your career, using me as a platform."

Kristin Lee: Yeah, if they really want it. And I do believe if you really want something, you can make it work, you can make it happen because you're going to make the effort. You're going to go and learn as much as you can. You're going to work really hard. And if you really believe in yourself you'll just figure out how to make it work. And I do like that energy and I see that energy and in some people that we hire.

Scott Rogowsky: And there's certainly a shift happening in the culture. And I think that we're sort of at this inflection point, and have been for some years now. But like you said, there's an antiquated element to the industry. You're changing that, younger people are changing that, and I think the celebrities themselves are so young now, especially when you have these TikTok influencers making millions of dollars at 16, 17, 18 years old. They clearly have no idea what they're doing or how to control their money and their spending, so they need someone like you. And when you started out, I'm sure it was mostly old white men who were not really in touch with the pulse, right? So are you finding that it's not just the gender, but your attitude and your style that kind of relates to the younger client, that sets you apart and really helps you form these unique relationships?

Kristin Lee: Yeah, definitely. Again, I think being younger, more apt to change, and more willingness to kind of take on new pieces of the entertainment industry, like say TikTok and these influencers, and there was a YouTube craze a few years ago. Just seeing new ways that people are making money, new things to figure out in terms of income streams or what is a celebrity.

Nora Ali: And with the burgeoning creator economy, so-called creator economy, to Scott's point, there's all these newer celebrities on the social platforms, with that comes streams of income that aren't necessarily reliable. You might get a check for a hundred thousand dollars, and then not get anything for a few months after that. So it's much harder to manage your finances and know what's coming next. What would be your advice to these young growing stars on what are some questions they should ask themselves? Or what are some considerations early on when you do start having this income that's not necessarily reliable, but it might come in waves, just like your clients, but that's obviously on a much higher level?

Kristin Lee: Yeah. It's even the mega-stars have their ebbs and flows. They might work a lot in a year or two and then not for a while. And that could be by choice or just because things don't pan out, you don't get every job that you go apply for. And a lot of people have hot moments and then periods of quiet time. So at the end of the day, to me, the dollar amount is really arbitrary. I think the mindset and the rules are the same, and it's easier to scale up than down, so I would strongly advise anyone not to scale their lifestyles up and their expenses up too quickly alongside of their income increase. You always want to scale up your costs of living at a lower rate than your income is increasing. Because if you have a dip, it's really hard to pull that back if you've gotten comfortable living a certain way. Don't spend the money before it's in the bank. I know people that get contracts or they've got things on the horizon and they just start spending it mentally, or actually, and then the thing falls apart, the tour gets canceled. This or that-

Scott Rogowsky: COVID happens.

Kristin Lee: COVID happens, right? And you're just totally up a creek. And then once it's there, set some aside, set money aside, I like to say for operations and taxes. And that's figure out a percentage that is comfortable for you and just shuck it away and leave it there and don't touch it because you're going to need it.

Scott Rogowsky: And put the rest into NFTs.

Nora Ali: JK.

Scott Rogowsky: We're going to take another quick break, but more from Kristin when we return. All right Kristin, time to get into the real fun stuff, because you wrote a story featured in The Cut. It was a piece called, "I Stop Celebrities From Blowing Their Money," in which you shared some really hilarious anecdotes from some clients. I love the one who called in and said, "What's my social security number again?" Or the person who spent $3,000 at 1 Oak and you thought it was a fraudulent charge because they never do that. And then it turns out he or she was just having a night and wanted to treat the whole club to free drinks. So clearly overspending is something that happens to some of these clients who, again, like we're talking about, there's a sudden surge of income and maybe they didn't come from any money, and this is all so new and they didn't have the guardrails in place. Have you been able to, in your experience with your data collect, have you been able to establish a pathology for overspending or reasons why celebrities get caught in that cycle?

Kristin Lee: Everybody's done it. We're all guilty of it. I think there's an adrenaline rush when you get a big influx of money and you are feeling on top of the world and you want to treat yourself and I think that's fair. I do tell my clients: It is okay to treat yourself when you've had a major accomplishment or get a big payday, so long as it's not going to keep you from your obligations. And I really would hope that most have a kind of solid sense of what that limit is, and if not, to ask. Most of our clients are really good about calling or informing us when they're about to make a big spend. I had a client that I saw recently and they were showing me these boots that they had bought, they were for a stage performance. But anyway, they were really nice, cool designer boots. And they go, "Well, I bought them a size too big because they were on sale, so I was thinking of you when I was doing that." And she's like, "I'm just going to stuff them a little bit so I can wear them on stage." And I was like, "God, I love that so much." She actually sat there and thought of me, "Well if I get the size too big, they're half off, so Kristin will be really happy with that."

Nora Ali: They're just trying to make you proud. I love that.

Kristin Lee: Yeah. I do love that too.

Nora Ali: One type of client that I find particularly interesting is athletes. And we've talked about this on this podcast before is, their careers are inherently finite, their baseball careers or football careers have a timeline, maybe shorter than other careers. How do you deal with that? Is there a specific, or more intentional, considerations knowing that line of revenue may end anytime soon?

Kristin Lee: Yeah. A lot of the sports leagues now do require a financial literacy course at signing, which is great. I think that was a huge problem before, is just giving these young kids who've never had money before just a boatload of money, and a lot of times, in one fell swoop. And that was a bigger problem because when they get that much money right away, then it's more easily spent. The smarter thing to do is to work out some sort of payment plan where these guys are on some form of salary from the leagues, or some sort of maybe step-up in payment. So you get something at signing, year one, year two, while also getting maybe some sort of monthly stipend throughout the year. And most are willing to do that now and want to do that. I feel like the younger guys, they're much more in tune with that. And I think everybody in the powers that be want to see these people be successful in their careers and then afterwards. And so I think it's giving them as many tools and as much education as possible, while also setting them up for success by not just dumping a truck of cash on them and saying, "Good luck."

Nora Ali: Do you feel like that's part of your responsibility, is that financial literacy piece, where even if it's not coming from you, you point them to different resources to learn? Or do you sort of leave that to others in their networks?

Kristin Lee: Yeah, that's come up a lot in conversation recently. I really do try to get people to understand what's going on, and we do try to tailor information and reporting and things for our clients in a way that is useful for them, at a frequency that's useful for them. And that kind of takes some getting to know each other when they're new. But I was talking with one of my staff about this because we were getting some interesting questions from a client and we're like, "There's got to be some basic literature out there that we can point them to or gift to clients when they're having these questions so that they kind of just get a basic understanding of it." So I don't know. Maybe I'm going to have to write it myself.

Scott Rogowsky: Yeah. A little bootcamp, masterclass.

Nora Ali: Yeah. Why not? And one way A-listers try to extend their brand, or the longevity of their brand, is by launching startups. Obviously they're involved to varying degrees and hire teams around them to do so. What role do you play in these startups? Is that something that you sort of join your clients for the ride on?

Kristin Lee: Yeah. We're pretty heavy handed in setting up those corporations for them, figuring out the structure and how they're going to operate, where the capital is coming from, pretty much become the CFO for a lot of those companies. And it's not uncommon if they grow or they partner with maybe another corporation or another corporation wants to partner or maybe absorb them, that will hand off a lot of those tasks and kind of just become a little bit more of a passive or silent partner. But from the ground up, generally when a client has those ideas, we talk with them and talk about structuring it and how we're going to do it and really kind of get it going, get it off the ground with them. And then we hope that it goes through various growth phases and becomes massive.

Nora Ali: Wow. What a dream. If every entrepreneur could just have a CFO on call basically when they want to start a company, that's great. One of my favorite anecdotes from your piece was the fact that you've seen some messed up romantic situations where people will be taken advantage of. But then you said you don't want to cross a line when people are in love, because you just can't convince them otherwise. Can you walk us through sort of an example of one of those bad romantic situations and how you deal with these personal matters?

Kristin Lee: Oh boy. This happens all the time. And sometimes I just I advise a lot of my clients and a lot of just people out there in the world that no matter what your relationship status is, to just try and keep your finances as separate as possible. It's just better practice. And I don't disagree with having certain things be joint accounts or whatever, but only if everyone is equally contributing. Sometimes we'll set up a joint account and everybody just puts in the same amount every month to cover shared costs. I'm totally cool with that. But man, I mean, when you get the partner who is spending, gets their own credit card and the next thing you know, you've got a mountain of debt going on. And I've seen it multiple times and it's tough because you see people's spending habits change when they're in relationships, especially if they're trying to-

Scott Rogowsky: Woo.

Kristin Lee: Yeah, woo. And then we get the statements and I'm like, what the hell? Who's doing all of this? Because I know you didn't go get your nails done eight times last month on your business credit card, that's a no-no and for a whole lot of reasons. And then we come to find out their partner has taken the card and is just using it as their personal piggy bank. And it's hard to stop. Again, it's not my money. I can only advise people. It's hard when you got the googly eyes on, I get it.

Scott Rogowsky: But these clients are hiring you for your advice, am I right? Or is it more just, "Hey, we want you to just handle it, pay the bills, make sure... And kind of just keep your hands off." Are there certain clients who want different things, and what's your strategy for helping those who, when you sense things are kind of getting out of control, obviously you don't want to overstep, but at the same time that is your role here?

Kristin Lee: It's funny. If Somebody will come and say, "I want to look and reveal all the spending. I want to curb this and let's talk about it and let's find some things to cut, and this and that." And I'm all for it. And then we do all this work and make a financial plan and then nothing happens, so it's still a mess. So at a certain point I have to consider, is the working relationship working? What are we doing here? And it could be that we're just not communicating effectively, could just be the wrong fit, could be that the client is just off the rails, you never know. And then I think, you can build up some sort of frustration and resentment there when things just are no longer effective. But at the same time, I have to be respectful that a lot of our clients have these ups and downs. If the client is having a downswing, that's somewhat natural, yet they're still trying and they're still communicating and they're not just blatantly going out there and being irresponsible, then I'm going to stay and work with them through their rough patch for as long as it makes sense for everyone, because I want to see my clients succeed. And one thing I'm really against is leaving people high and dry when they need you the most. But I've seen clients in down swings and they kind of just wallow in it or walk away and stick their head in the sand and don't want to do anything about it. And then I'm like, "Okay, well I can't stay and do this either."

Scott Rogowsky: There's an element to fame, as you are well aware of working with these people, that is maybe not so fun, it's not so glamorous. It's the personal, private moments, the mental health struggles, that can often plague clients who are in the spotlight constantly. How do you balance your job as a business manager with, again, this personal relationship, because you do get so close? You're so tied in with their finances, which is probably the most personal thing a person can share with someone, is their financial and their business information. So you're, you know, you have to have some concern for these clients in these situations, right?

Kristin Lee: Oh God. Yeah. That one, especially in the last few years, it's been really hard. It's not easy to be on all the time and to be that person for everyone. And I think people can forget that our clients are also humans. They have personal lives, they have personal struggles, they have fears and they have things that they need help with too. And I feel they carry a lot for other people, being an inspiration and being someone that a lot of people look up to, that can weigh. And I think there's just this thing of, I think, a general population somehow feeling entitled to the personal lives of people just because that's their chosen profession, is to be out there in the world. And I just disagree with that. It's their job, but we don't own them. It's totally fair for them to want to kind of recuse themselves from time to time from certain things, or just kind of take a break. I'm glad more people are talking about it publicly and just kind of removing the stigma on it, because otherwise it can get really ugly. I've just seen the worst of it. And I would just encourage everybody to be mindful of every other human around them. Everybody is a person.

Nora Ali: And, Kristin, you have a pretty good perspective as well that you wrote about in The Cut on not being envious of your client's money, because you are seeing these vast amounts of millions upon millions of dollars. How do you stay focused on what's important?

Kristin Lee: My job is to keep things running and make sure my clients are happy and their businesses are running smoothly, and the things that they want out of their business and their lives are happening. And as long as that's happening, I'm happy. I mean, I've got happy clients, I'm happy. I always tell my staff I'm like, "If the clients are happy and their stuff is getting done, I'm good." That's really kind of all it is at the end of the day. Happy clients, happy life.

Scott Rogowsky: That's right. Well, happy guests, happy hosts is what we say here. And you seem like you've been having a good time, but I don't know. I don't know if that might change, Kristin, because it's time to put you in the hot seat. It's time for Quizness Casual, the Business Casual quiz. We're wrapping things up here, it's a quick three-hitter. But here's the best news, Kristin: You're going to have the wonderful Nora at your disposal to help you out here. The two of you are on the same team, okay? Teaming up to answer my questions, three, all about entertainers, big spenders, money, celebs. Let's get into it: Qumero Numero Uno. Who was the highest paid singer in 2021? Paul Simon, Taylor Swift, Bruce Springsteen, or Kanye West? And I will caveat this by saying highest paid. Basically it's like who made the most money? And it's not... Could be a bit of a trick question, right? It's not necessarily based on album sales or touring, just who cashed out in 2021?

Nora Ali: Not just from their performances.

Kristin Lee: I would say probably Bruce Springsteen. Didn't he sell his catalog last year?

Nora Ali: That is absolutely true.

Scott Rogowsky: Someone was paying attention to the Rolling Stone article.

Nora Ali: That sounds like the right answer. Is it Scott?

Scott Rogowsky: Yes. Bruce, The Boss. Was the boss when it came to 2021 singers making money because, yes, he sold his masters to Sony in December for a whopping $550 million.

Kristin Lee: Good for him, man.

Scott Rogowsky: Okay, here we go, question two: What celebrity has a personal water park in their mansion? Celine Dion, Michael Jordan, Kylie Jenner, or DJ Khaled?

Kristin Lee: I'm going to go with DJ Khaled.

Nora Ali: Yeah, I was going to say that too, It seems on brand.

Kristin Lee: I know he likes water sports.

Nora Ali: Another one. Okay. I guess we're going with it.

Scott Rogowsky: Well, going for... You're confident in DJ Khaled. DJ Khaled does have a mansion and he does have a room in the mansion that can fit up to 500 pairs of sneakers because he loves his shoes. And he's got a ladder that you can actually walk up and grab the hard-to-reach shoes, but he doesn't have the water park. That would be Celine Dion.

Nora Ali: What?

Kristin Lee: No way.

Scott Rogowsky: Yes. On Jupiter Island in Florida where she lived, it had like the slides and-

Kristin Lee: Celine, call us. We ready, summer is coming.

Scott Rogowsky: ... Pools and lazy river. Yeah, we need an invite there. All right, that was tough.

Nora Ali: Wow.

Scott Rogowsky: Here we go, this one blew my mind. It might blow yours, too. Which celebrity has a nearly $400,000 mattress that is made of stingray skin and horse hair? All right, is it: Lady Gaga, Drake, Shia LaBeouf, or James Franco?

Nora Ali: What?

Scott Rogowsky: And I checked the prices [inaudible]. This was maybe inflation, now it's over $500,000, this mattress cost, if you want to buy it today.

Nora Ali: That sounds so uncomfortable. Stingray and horse hair? That doesn't sound...

Kristin Lee: I feel like that's a James Franco thing.

Nora Ali: Yeah. I would say so too. That's like the kinds of characters he plays too.

Scott Rogowsky: I'm going to give you another hint. This guy has a famous line in which he professes his love.

Nora Ali: His bed, for his bed. Is it Drake?

Scott Rogowsky: For his bed.

Nora Ali: I love my mom and my bed and... Okay.

Kristin Lee: I guess it's Drake.

Scott Rogowsky: I love my mom and my bed.

Nora Ali: Drake.

Scott Rogowsky: Drake. Drizzy is dripping in that mattress. The Grand Vividus it's called. Made by a Swedish company called Hastens, handmade by their artist and craftsman with compressed leather, polished wood, suede, and brass adornments. It's now...

Nora Ali: That's ridiculous.

Scott Rogowsky: ... A half-a-million-dollar mattress.

Kristin Lee: Well, if he ever starts to go broke, he can sell that mattress. He probably can get another year or life out of him .

Scott Rogowsky: Kristin, that's going to wrap it up. Nice job on the quiz.

Nora Ali: Woo.

Scott Rogowsky: Thanks for the chat. It's really interesting to hear from this corner of showbiz, and business frankly, that we don't really think about too often.

Kristin Lee: Thanks for having me.

Scott Rogowsky: We love hearing from our Business Casual listeners. So please hit us up, send us an email at businesscasual@morningbrew.com, or DM us on Twitter @BizCasualPod. That's B-I-Zcasualpod, with your thoughts about the show, your questions about my personal spending habits, or maybe you have a guest you want to recommend. We'll take your recs.

Nora Ali: All good ideas. And you can also leave us a voice memo on our website, businesscasual.fm, or give us a ring and leave us an old-fashioned voicemail. Our number is 862-295-1135. As Business Casual grows, we are excited to get to know our listeners, old and new. Drop us a line and don't forget to leave your name and where you are calling or writing from so we can hear from you in a future episode.

Scott Rogowsky: Business Casual is expertly managed by Katherine Milsop and Bella Hutchins. Additional production, sound design, and mixing by Daniel Markus. Sarah Singer is our VP of multimedia. Holly Van Leuven is our fact checker. Music in this episode from Daniel Markus and The Mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder. If you like what you heard, please follow Business Casual on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you go for your ear candy. And we'd love it if you give us a great rating and a review.

Nora Ali: Thanks for listening to Business Casual, I'm Nora Ali.

Scott Rogowsky: And I'm Scott Rogowsky.

Nora Ali: Keep it business.

Scott Rogowsky: And keep it casual.